BEWARE SUSPICIOUS EBAY TORMEK LISTINGS

[Ken S]

I just noticed four new listings from China with no reviews and unbelievable prices, like $69.95 for a new T4. Buyer beware!

Ken

[jeffs55]

If someone buys a Tormek from China, let Darwin take over and cull the weakest of the species.

[kenc295]

Disgusting the way these Chinese fake name brand stuff.  I have a Devlbiss Prolite spray gun, cost me $440. On ebay they have Chinese fakes which look identical down to the home address of devilbiss imprinted on the gun for $69.  It's not only that you support thieves by buying this junk, you also confuse and devalue the used market for the real thing.

[Ken S]

My only intention in posting this was to warn our forum members and guests. I did not mean  to impune the Chinese or comment on the general used market.

Ken

[Twisted Trees]

Disgusting the way these Chinese fake name brand stuff.  I have a Devlbiss Prolite spray gun, cost me $440. On ebay they have Chinese fakes which look identical down to the home address of devilbiss imprinted on the gun for $69.  It's not only that you support thieves by buying this junk, you also confuse and devalue the used market for the real thing.

Many of the British and American companies that have Chinese knock off problems do not deserve our sympathy, it is because of greed they laid of local staff for the promise of cheap labor and low Health and Safety.

It's not my area of expertise but a friend of mine is into model railways, and he used a particular brand of track that is distinctive in it's design. During the boom time of the Chinese cheap labor they closed  down the factory in the UK, shipped all the tooling to China so they could make more profits. the Chinese brand of railway track sprung up within a month of the tooling being sent, half the price and from the moldings made in the same factory with the same tooling that was sent from the UK to start with. Of course the company then couldn't sell theirs at the price point they had had held for 50+ years workers were unemployed and the company made less profit.

It is rumored that of the 50 MIG fighters Russia sold to the Chinese in the 1950's despite never ordering service parts 300 of them are still airworthy!!!

[Ken S]

Interesting thought, Jeff.

Twisted Trees,

I have a RotaTrim paper cutter from my many years with a photographic darkroom. After thirty five years, it still works flawlessly. I have never sharpened it. These legendary trimmers were made in the UK. As a matter of pride in his workmanship, each cutting wheel was signed by the man who ground it. That is quality. That is tradition. Sadly, that is also becoming increasingly rare.

My trimmer was expensive, although I have long since forgotten the price and am still enjoying its quality.

Ken

[GeoTech]

"although I have long since forgotten the price and am still enjoying its quality." I love that statement.

[Ken S]

I must confess that I rephrased it from an old E Leitz ad. (E Leitz was the parent company for the Leica cameras, the Rolls Royce of 35mm cameras.) The original saying was, "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten." Leica quality was legendary; so were their prices!

Ken

[GeoTech]

I must confess that I rephrased it from an old E Leitz ad. (E Leitz was the parent company for the Leica cameras, the Rolls Royce of 35mm cameras.) The original saying was, "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten." Leica quality was legendary; so were their prices!

Ken

Leica cameras are some of the finest ever produced. I use to shoot with a M6 and wish I never traded it for a digital SLR. I will own another Leica rangefinder someday.

[Ken S]

Back in the 1980s, when siege mortar size macro zooms were all the rage, my single most expensive piece of camera equipment was my 50mm "normal" camera lens, which I bought as a demo. It was a Leitz f1.4 Summilux M. It cost $600 US and was (is) a marvelous lens on my M3. It was the only Lens I used on my M3 Leica. The M3 with 50mm and my old Nikon F with 85mm f2.0 gave me a stripped down to fighting weight unbeatable combination. Compact, light, and very fast.

I have never heard a Leica user complain about the cost of a Tormek.....

Ken

[jeffs55]

Back in the 1980s, when siege mortar size macro zooms were all the rage, my single most expensive piece of camera equipment was my 50mm "normal" camera lens, which I bought as a demo. It was a Leitz f1.4 Summilux M. It cost $600 US and was (is) a marvelous lens on my M3. It was the only Lens I used on my M3 Leica. The M3 with 50mm and my old Nikon F with 85mm f2.0 gave me a stripped down to fighting weight unbeatable combination. Compact, light, and very fast.

I have never heard a Leica user complain about the cost of a Tormek.....

Ken

That is because you can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I appreciate the practical wisdom of your maxim. There are many situations where having more is the better choice. When I moved several years ago, i was very glad to have my full size pickup truck. It allowed me to get a good head start on moving. Mid move, my truck unexpectedly gave up the ghost and I needed to replace it. In my new life situation, most of my driving was transporting my two grandchildren back and forth to school, a fifty mile round trip on mostly rural secondary roads with a maximum speed limit of 55 mph. Being able to haul sheets of plywood was no longer a priority; my needs had changed. My present small SUV with a four cylinder engine fulfills my needs economically and easily fits in my not terribly well organized garage.

That does not negate the wisdom of your maxim. It does suggest to me that individual situation judgement needs to be introduced into decisions. With the Tormek, we should consider both quality and size. In my mind, the Tormek is the high quality, long term choice of wet grinders. Where we might differ is on the importance of having the larger, heavy duty model or not. Again, I would factor in the needs of the situation. In a heavy use, more industrial situation, I think the T8 size Tormek is a logical choice. For the lighter duty most of us require, I see either size being quite adequate. Either will get the job done. Some will prefer the larger size. At 69 years old, I favor the lighter, more compact T4.

Part of the wisdom of maxims is knowing when and how much to apply them.

Ken 

[jeffs55]

Part of the wisdom of maxims is knowing when and how much to apply them. Here is an oldie that further bolsters my own maxim as you call it. "Better safe than sorry". I do however, agree that the best is not always warranted. For instance there is the one time in my life that I purchased the "Companion" brand tool at Sears rather than the "Craftsman" brand. I did that because the tool would see only very occasional use and in hindsight practically no use. It is still in pristine shape I suppose. I wish I knew where it was !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Naw, really we are both right but I am more right.  There are other extenuating circumstances as well. I had back surgery in December and am still not supposed to lift over 10 lbs. That rules out either Tormek model if it has to be moved to use.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I am sorry to hear about your back surgery. Fortunately, as our bodies grow older, our brains fill up with experience. If you remomve the grinding wheel and universal support bar from a T4, you should be just about at the ten pound weight limit. The T4's included EZYlock makes wheel removal quick and easy. During Jeff Farris' extensive travels demonstrating the Tormek, he always removed the grinding wheels before transporting his Tormeks. This was a good preemptive practice to keep his shafts straight. It was also good preemptive practice for his back.  This was before the EZYlock. To the best of my knowledge, Jeff Farris has never used a T4. However, two of the other knife sharpeners I regard most highly speak highly of the T4 from personal use. Steve Bottorff, who would be a charter member of "The Million Mile Tormek Club", if one existed, spent a day sharpening knives at a Boy Scout Jamboree where he had to hike in and out carrying his Tormek. Steve wisely chose to bring his T4. It was a real trial by fire for him and his T4. He now speaks very well of the T4.

Your point about Companion tools is well taken. (Sears used Companion and Dunlap tools as their second line, Craftsman being their top line.) My grandfather outfitted his shop with Companion power tools during the Depression of the 1930s. I inherited many of those tools. There were important differences between the brands. Two stand out for me. The Caftsman drill presses had adjustable depth stops. My Companion drill press does not. This has proved a real inconvenience. The other difference is the ball bearings in the craftsman tools. My Companion lathe has bronze bushings, which require frequent oiling. With fastidious oiling, these bushings will outlast me, however, ball bearings would be more convenient.

I eventually gave away ranp\dpop's Companion band saw. I could never get it to cut accurately. my uncle told me that Grandpop had the same difficulties with it. During the Depression, the Companion bandsaw cost $15. A Delta bandsaw would have cost $45. The Delta bandsaw I purchased decades later cost $600. 

[kenc295]

Disgusting the way these Chinese fake name brand stuff.  I have a Devlbiss Prolite spray gun, cost me $440. On ebay they have Chinese fakes which look identical down to the home address of devilbiss imprinted on the gun for $69.  It's not only that you support thieves by buying this junk, you also confuse and devalue the used market for the real thing.

Many of the British and American companies that have Chinese knock off problems do not deserve our sympathy, it is because of greed they laid of local staff for the promise of cheap labor and low Health and Safety.

It's not my area of expertise but a friend of mine is into model railways, and he used a particular brand of track that is distinctive in it's design. During the boom time of the Chinese cheap labor they closed  down the factory in the UK, shipped all the tooling to China so they could make more profits. the Chinese brand of railway track sprung up within a month of the tooling being sent, half the price and from the moldings made in the same factory with the same tooling that was sent from the UK to start with. Of course the company then couldn't sell theirs at the price point they had had held for 50+ years workers were unemployed and the company made less profit.

It is rumored that of the 50 MIG fighters Russia sold to the Chinese in the 1950's despite never ordering service parts 300 of them are still airworthy!!!

The Prolite is exclusively manufactured in the U.K. so I'm not sure how this story - though true - applies.   I suspect Tormek have never used China s a manufacturer either, so again, doesn't apply.  It is Governemnt supported theft by the Chinese.