New T-8 user questions

[ear3]

Just got a T-8.

The main impetus was to get consistent results on my turning tools.  I had been using a Worksharp 3000, primarily working off of the slotted wheel, but could not get a consistently sharp edge on all of those tools.  But the straw that broke the camel's back was last month, when I lost an entire afternoon having to reestablish the primary bevel on two large plane irons on my bench stones.

Been using the T-8 now for about a week.  Amazing results so far on my lathe chisels -- they've never been this sharp, and it's pretty remarkable how quickly it is to resharpen them once I re-grinded the basic profile.  Have done half of my chisels, all the kitchen knives (the wife is very impressed), an axe, and started to do some plane irons.  The plane irons are a bit more of a challenge, at least the ones that are wider than the wheel diameter.  My first try with the iron on my jack plane did not go well, as in moving the blade back and forth across the wheel I ended up removing more material on parts of the blade, resulting in an edge that was anything but straight.  But after a bit of patience, and checking the edge regularly with a square, I was able to get it reasonably straight, enough that a final honing of a secondary bevel on my bench stones connected the dots all the way across the edge.  I'm still a bit leary of putting the widest blades on the machine, like the 2 5/8" iron for my no. 8 jointer, or the 3" blade for my large spokeshave, but I'll deal with that if and when those blades need some radical redressing on the wheel, as opposed to just a quick re-honing on the bench stones.

I have a couple of basic questions, which I'm sure have been posed at some point on this forum, so forgive the repetition:

1) Play in the universal tool support

I've noticed a small amount of play in the universal support rod, particularly in the vertical position.  If you just allow gravity to do its work, the rod ends up ever so slightly out of parallel to the wheel.  I've corrected for this by applying pressure upwards on the rod when tightening the knobs on the machine to lock it in.  On small tools, I don't think the difference is all that noticeable, but on large plane irons, it seems like this could definitely effect blade squareness, not to mention what results you might get from re-dressing the wheel.
Is this play normal?

2) Time required with grading stone

I feel like I read in the manual somewhere that to bring the stone up to 1000 grit, you're supposed to press the stone grader to the wheel for around 20-25 seconds (I can't seem now to find where I read it -- maybe I saw it in an official Tormek video?).  But in seeing various demonstrations of it in use, I have seen people apply the grading stone for as few as 5 seconds.  How long do people generally recommend working with the grading stone, and is there a time differential going from coarse to fine vs. fine to coarse?

3) Finer honing compounds on leather wheel

At some point I might look into getting the finer Japanese stone wheel.  From what I've seen, the 4000 grit Japanese stone supposedly gets the edge fine enough that any further honing on the leather wheel is redundant.  But what if one were to charge the leather wheel with a finer substance, like super low-micron DMT diamond paste?  Anyone try doing this even without using the Japanese stone?

Thanks in advance for any advice.     

[cbwx34]

Just got a T-8.

The main impetus was to get consistent results on my turning tools.  I had been using a Worksharp 3000, primarily working off of the slotted wheel, but could not get a consistently sharp edge on all of those tools.  But the straw that broke the camel's back was last month, when I lost an entire afternoon having to reestablish the primary bevel on two large plane irons on my bench stones.

Been using the T-8 now for about a week.  Amazing results so far on my lathe chisels -- they've never been this sharp, and it's pretty remarkable how quickly it is to resharpen them once I re-grinded the basic profile.  Have done half of my chisels, all the kitchen knives (the wife is very impressed), an axe, and started to do some plane irons.  The plane irons are a bit more of a challenge, at least the ones that are wider than the wheel diameter.  My first try with the iron on my jack plane did not go well, as in moving the blade back and forth across the wheel I ended up removing more material on parts of the blade, resulting in an edge that was anything but straight.  But after a bit of patience, and checking the edge regularly with a square, I was able to get it reasonably straight, enough that a final honing of a secondary bevel on my bench stones connected the dots all the way across the edge.  I'm still a bit leary of putting the widest blades on the machine, like the 2 5/8" iron for my no. 8 jointer, or the 3" blade for my large spokeshave, but I'll deal with that if and when those blades need some radical redressing on the wheel, as opposed to just a quick re-honing on the bench stones.

I have a couple of basic questions, which I'm sure have been posed at some point on this forum, so forgive the repetition:

1) Play in the universal tool support

I've noticed a small amount of play in the universal support rod, particularly in the vertical position.  If you just allow gravity to do its work, the rod ends up ever so slightly out of parallel to the wheel.  I've corrected for this by applying pressure upwards on the rod when tightening the knobs on the machine to lock it in.  On small tools, I don't think the difference is all that noticeable, but on large plane irons, it seems like this could definitely effect blade squareness, not to mention what results you might get from re-dressing the wheel.
Is this play normal?

2) Time required with grading stone

I feel like I read in the manual somewhere that to bring the stone up to 1000 grit, you're supposed to press the stone grader to the wheel for around 20-25 seconds (I can't seem now to find where I read it -- maybe I saw it in an official Tormek video?).  But in seeing various demonstrations of it in use, I have seen people apply the grading stone for as few as 5 seconds.  How long do people generally recommend working with the grading stone, and is there a time differential going from coarse to fine vs. fine to coarse?

3) Finer honing compounds on leather wheel

At some point I might look into getting the finer Japanese stone wheel.  From what I've seen, the 4000 grit Japanese stone supposedly gets the edge fine enough that any further honing on the leather wheel is redundant.  But what if one were to charge the leather wheel with a finer substance, like super low-micron DMT diamond paste?  Anyone try doing this even without using the Japanese stone?

Thanks in advance for any advice.   

Welcome to the forum.  I'll contribute my .02...

1).  I think a slight amount of play may be normal... but that might be a question to send directly to Tormek support, (or let others chime in on).  It's easy to compensate for though (as you have described by applying pressure upwards...), although I do it by applying downward pressure to the corner of the support (i.e. the corner above the rod farthest from the wheel, this reduces the potential of actually lifting up the entire USB).  Either way should keep it parallel to the wheel.  (Just make sure you also do it when you true the wheel, to keep everything consistent).  (Consistency is one main goal in most sharpening methods).

2).  5 seconds wouldn't be enough to adequately grade the stone... unless you were doing it often to keep it "fresh", (if that makes sense).  The manual recommends "20-30 seconds with high pressure".  That's probably a good general guideline... it may take a little more or less, depending on the condition of the stone... in other words, if you were going from "coarse" to "fine" it would take longer than if you were just touching up a stone that was already fine, so that might explain the difference you're seeing.  As others have said, practice a bit with the stone grader, and when you see how it works, you'll see the difference, and know what to look for.

3).  You can use other compounds on the wheel, but you can't really switch back and forth with different compounds on the same wheel (you probably already know this).  One issue you might have though is going too fine... that it doesn't adequately polish from the standard wheel.  The Tormek compound (from my understanding and experience), is formulated to work well with the standard stone, and also breaks down a bit in use, so it does a good job of both removing the grind marks from the stone, and then polishing.  (Also a stone will typically work better than compound on leather, since there's more abrasive, and a harder surface).

Hope that helps!

[ear3]

That makes sense, thanks @cbwx34

[cbwx34]

That makes sense, thanks @cbwx34

You're welcome... glad it made sense! 

[RichColvin]

When I use the SJ wheel, I don't find the need to hone. 

[cbwx34]

When I use the SJ wheel, I don't find the need to hone.

I agree for the most part, although I've had a knife or two that still benefited from a quick pass on the leather, even after the SJ wheel, to clean up the edge.  But the SJ wheel is designed to be a "final step".

I guess if a person wanted, they could apply a compound finer than the SJ wheel, to continue the "polishing" process.  (Some sharpeners are really into mirror bevels).

[jeffs55]

At some point I might look into getting the finer Japanese stone wheel.  From what I've seen, the 4000 grit Japanese stone supposedly gets the edge fine enough that any further honing on the leather wheel is redundant.  But what if one were to charge the leather wheel with a finer substance, like super low-micron DMT diamond paste?  Anyone try doing this even without using the Japanese stone?

Thanks in advance for any advice.   
[/quote]
I have a Japanese stone and find it to be more of a "statement" than a useful tool. You do not need to sharpen beyond the 1000 grit of the stone and then hone it. You are just bragging in other words.

[cbwx34]

I have a Japanese stone and find it to be more of a "statement" than a useful tool. You do not need to sharpen beyond the 1000 grit of the stone and then hone it. You are just bragging in other words.

I think it has its place... honing on a solid wheel will typically produce a "crisper" (which equals sharper) edge vs. honing on leather, and a more refined edge will perform better in certain situations (usually push cutting).  I would think a lot of woodworking tools would benefit, as well as knives used in this fashion.

But, for the typical knife use... it can be more than is needed, again depending on how it's used... (although I do believe an edge doesn't have to be "very toothy" to perform, like some do).

I don't think it's just for bragging... to me, polish is just a "side product" of a sharp knife... (but sometimes, nothing wrong with that either!)   

[ear3]

For me, it is actually useful to get some of my tools as sharp as possible.  Lathe chisels not so much, but on plane blades, I have found with my bench stones a noticeable difference between stopping at 4000 vs. 8000 vs. 16000 on the final hone. 

I have a Japanese stone and find it to be more of a "statement" than a useful tool. You do not need to sharpen beyond the 1000 grit of the stone and then hone it. You are just bragging in other words.

I think it has its place... honing on a solid wheel will typically produce a "crisper" (which equals sharper) edge vs. honing on leather, and a more refined edge will perform better in certain situations (usually push cutting).  I would think a lot of woodworking tools would benefit, as well as knives used in this fashion.

But, for the typical knife use... it can be more than is needed, again depending on how it's used... (although I do believe an edge doesn't have to be "very toothy" to perform, like some do).

I don't think it's just for bragging... to me, polish is just a "side product" of a sharp knife... (but sometimes, nothing wrong with that either!)   

[RichColvin]

I like to use the SJ stone for only adding a micro bevel.  Works well, fast, & leaves a sharp edge.

Rich

[Sharpco]

When I use the SJ wheel, I don't find the need to hone.

I agree for the most part, although I've had a knife or two that still benefited from a quick pass on the leather, even after the SJ wheel, to clean up the edge.  But the SJ wheel is designed to be a "final step".

I guess if a person wanted, they could apply a compound finer than the SJ wheel, to continue the "polishing" process.  (Some sharpeners are really into mirror bevels).

I agree with you, CB.

If someone can use the honing wheel(PA-70) properly, I think it creates a sharper, longer-lasting edge than SJ.

[cbwx34]

I agree with you, CB.

If someone can use the honing wheel(PA-70) properly, I think it creates a sharper, longer-lasting edge than SJ.

Not quite what I said (or meant to say)... if you read my other post, I actually think a stone can produce a better edge... but some knives respond better to the leather wheel (for example if there's a tenacious burr that won't go away).  (But, we'd have to define what we're looking for in the edge too).

I like to use the SJ stone for only adding a micro bevel.  Works well, fast, & leaves a sharp edge.

Rich

I definitely agree with this.