What have I bought?

[TDA171]

Hi Ken!
I have been given your name by one of the moderators (Bob) on UK workshop, as being the 'font of all knowledge' when it comes to older TORMEK machines!
As a newcomer to wood turning I recently purchased a SUPERGRIND 1200 machine at auction, and it runs beautifully. However as you can see in the attached picture it came with the solid, RED grinding wheel that has a thin and fine abrasive coating.
My enquiries on the UKWS site forum, got a response from a member who said he purchased the same machine about 10 years ago, and it had the same wheel, which he tells me is a diamond wheel.

Two questions: Are you able to confirm that, and should it be used wet or dry? Any help will be much appreciated. Many thanks!
Tim

[Rob]

The font of all knowledge regarding Tormek generally in fact, not just older machines :-)

[RichColvin]

I've not seen one of the old SuperGrind's in blue.  Mine is the 2000, and it is green.  Were the 1200's blue ?  Was this possibly some special order with that wheel type ?

Kind regards,
Rich

[Stickan]

Hi,
The machine is a 1200 model and looks like it's in great condition  The sharpening-wheel is not original, and it's Diamond grid.

Best,
Stig

[jeffs55]

Gentlemen, the word is "fount" as in fountain. As you know, font is a type of lettering of which there are many. There is only one "Ken S".

[RobinW]

Far be it for me to start another trans-Atlantic argument particularly with regard the Queen's English, but Font is correct.

As per a couple of dictionaries:-

Font - Definition:- noun

1 - a receptacle, usually of stone, as in a baptistery or church, containing the water used in baptism.
2 - a receptacle for holy water; stoup.
3 - a productive source:
4 - the reservoir for oil in a lamp.
5 - Archaic. a fountain.

Font (2) - printing; another name (especially in USA and Canada for fount)

Fount - Definition - noun

1 - Poetic; a spring or fountain
2 - a source

Fount (2) - printing; a complete set of type of one style and size
Also called (especially USA and Canada) Font


So maybe we should settle for a draw that we're all correct, but in the phrase 'a font of all knowledge' is how it is spoken and written on this side of the water. This should not be interpreted as Fake News or Alternative Facts.

By the way TDA171, it looks a good machine, and you should now read up on KenS's reviews of fitting and testing diamond wheels on Tormek machines.

[Ken S]

Hi, Tim, and welcome to the forum.

I fear your source person may have greatly exaggerated my knowledge. My direct, hands on experience with the Tormek goes back to the T7 and T4. My knowledge of earlier models is from my own research. I will gladly share that with you.

Your photo did not show a water trough or the standard issue grinding wheel, the SG-200. (I believe the SG stands for SuperGrind; the 200 is the wheel diameter, 200mm.) Do you have the trough and standard grinding wheel?

The SG1200 is two generations back from the T4. It shares the compactness and light weight I like so much in the T4. The motor is the same, however, with the all plastic housing, you have to  pay attention to not overheating the unit. With reasonable care, this should not be a problem, and your SG1200 should give you many years of faithful service.

On the main Tormek website, click on My Tormek. You should register your Tormek. The older Tormek models did not have serial numbers, which is no problem. Registration allows you to access the downloadable online handbook. Most of the information has not changed over the years. Registration also lets you watch three very good videos, well worth your time.

Registration also documents your ownership, in case of theft. I speak from first hand experience in this, as my original T7 was stolen.

At sometime soon, you will want to clean and regrease your nylon mainshaft bushings. This is not a big project, and gets easier every year.

At this point, I will not overload with gadgets to purchase. As you mention being a turner, I will highly recommend the latest gouge jig, the SVD-186, over the earlier SVD-185. It has several substantial improvements, including a redesign to fit the T4/3/SG1200 better. Our UK turning expert, Rob, also recommends it.

I hope you will keep posting.

Enjoy your new classic Tormek.

Ken

[Rob]

Don't believe his modesty Tim.....Ken is both the font AND fount of all knowledge (although Stickan who is Tormek management is a bit of a whizz too :-))

By the way, just in case you're confused (by my having different names here and on UK Workshop), I am the Random Orbital Bob that referred you here.

Incidentally, I strongly recommend you follow Ken's advice with respect to downloading the pdf format of the manual because it's an absolute sharpening bible.  You're just starting to scratch the surface of the Tormek Universe but that manual will shine a little light on the kind of quality you can expect from this company's output. 

You'll also find that Tormek holds patents on almost all the useful grinding jigs for turning tools.  Many have re-licenced or closely copied them but Tormek have the engineering mind-set that innovated them originally.  The manual will lift the lid on a lot of that thinking.  It also has about the most useful (one page) guide on different grind profiles for bowl and spindle gouges ever written.  That is laminated and sits next to my sharpening station, next to the lathe.

[Ken S]

Rob, I thought Bob was your uncle.   Incidentally, Robin, my review was about CBN wheels. I have no experience with diamond wheels, although Tim is learning about them. (Please post your observations, Tim.)

I believe most of us prefer the model of Tormek we happen to have. This or that feature might seem nice (and can almost always be retrofitted), however, a Tormek is a Tormek. Incidentally, the jigs are all interchangeable, as is the handbook.

Enjoy.

Ken

[jeffs55]

Far be it for me to start another trans-Atlantic argument particularly with regard the Queen's English, but Font is correct.

As per a couple of dictionaries:-

Font - Definition:- noun

1 - a receptacle, usually of stone, as in a baptistery or church, containing the water used in baptism.
2 - a receptacle for holy water; stoup.
3 - a productive source:
4 - the reservoir for oil in a lamp.
5 - Archaic. a fountain.

Font (2) - printing; another name (especially in USA and Canada for fount)

Fount - Definition - noun

1 - Poetic; a spring or fountain
2 - a source

Fount (2) - printing; a complete set of type of one style and size
Also called (especially USA and Canada) Font


So maybe we should settle for a draw that we're all correct, but in the phrase 'a font of all knowledge' is how it is spoken and written on this side of the water. This should not be interpreted as Fake News or Alternative Facts.

By the way TDA171, it looks a good machine, and you should now read up on KenS's reviews of fitting and testing diamond wheels on Tormek machines.

I cannot believe that I have been proven wrong. Congrats.

[Herman Trivilino]

Are you able to confirm that, and should it be used wet or dry?

So it seems Stig has confirmed that it's a diamond grindstone, but I don't think anyone addressed the wet or dry issue.

People here have tried CBN grindstones, and I believe they report having used them both wet and dry.

If your machine is missing the water trough you will have to run dry, unless you can find one somewhere.

https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/products/3176-water-trough

Your machine looks so well preserved I'm tempted to guess it's been running dry. If the water trough is missing it may because it wasn't being used.

[Rob]

But on that issue I would strongly recommend you buy a water trough for it as well as a regular wheel because diamond will be fantastic for shaping very hard steels and even carbide but just for regular sharpening of an already profiled bowl or spindle gouge, it's complete overkill.

The primary benefit of the Tormek is to use it as it's design intended ie wet, to avoid the heat build up with faster dry grinders.  In missing that prima facie technology, you'll not be taking advantage of a gouge profile that will never change, never have a blued edge and will have so little steel removed at sharpening's that will likely last your lifetime.

So best to understand where different abrasive technologies are positioned against the different steel types ie different hardness's.  The bottom line is that diamond is the goto choice for very very hard exotic alloys like Tungsten Carbide.  So would be good if you have lots of carbide tipped deep hollowing tools or scrapers etc but for regular high speed steel gouges, skews, scrapers etc it is overkill.  Diamond wheels are also very expensive so it's wasteful to deploy them against materials too soft to warrant them.  If I had acquired that machine and it is a beauty, no doubt about that, I would buy a new, regular SG wheel (not the SB) and get a water trough.  I would then only use the diamond stone for shaping of tools (lots of steel removal) or when I was deep hollowing end grain forms like a vase type hollow vessel that warrants carbide tipped tools.

[Ken S]

We must be careful not to draw conclusions from facts not in evidence. At this point, we don't know what all was included with Tim's Tormek. (Tim, more information would help.) We also do not know the grit of the diamond wheel.

Based on my work with CBN wheels (and experiments with the SG), going directly from an 80 or 180 grit wheel to the leather honing wheel, while not orthodox Tormek technique, actually works reasonably well. Going from the diamond wheel directly to the leather honing wheel should work just as well.

In theory, I totally agree with Rob about the value of the SG wheel with the Tormek. However, to properly equip Tim's T1200 with an SG-200 wheel would involve not only the wheel itself, but also a water trough, a TT-50 truing tool; a micro adjust universal support; and a stone grader. This list does not even include the very nice to have EZYlock shaft. From an economic standpoint, we are getting very close to the cost of a new T4.

My advice would be to use the T1200 as is. The diamond wheel should have a lighter touch. Making the last passes with a very light touch might help the diamond wheel imitate a finer grit. Be generous with the time you spend with the leather honing wheel. Your edges will be fine.

For turning, as stated earlier, I highly recommend the new SVD-186.

Tim, we need more information.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

What all did you get with this?  (valid question, as you mentioned turning and I don't see any jigs)
What else do you have and use?  Do you have a bench grinder that could be used with the bench grinder kit for rough shaping?  (if so you may not want or need another stone and water tray)  This is A tool, but not the complete setup for turning, based on the picture.

[Stickan]

Hi,
Diamond and CBN wheels can be used wet or dry, depending on the design of the wheel too, looking at the picture you can see a weld and rust.
Using Honrite gold, which make the water non-corrosive, prevents rust and is nessecery to keep the wheel from problems.
Some like to use it dry and some with water.
Wet will remove particles from the edge while sharpening, dry will build up remeins of the metal at the edge tip.
If the steel gets warm on using a CBN/Diamond wheel on a Tormek you apply way to much pressure which also will damage the wheel.


Best,
Stig