SE-77 binding on universal support shaft

[danglin]

I am now just getting my T8 set up and am having a big problem with binding between the SE 77 square jig and the universal support. I used to have a T7 but gave it to a close friend and happened to have ordered an extra universal support by mistake so I tried it too. I can't detect a bend in the support shafts. I have tried two different fine lubricants and used a micro polishing abrasive to the universal support shaft, but I still have to use significant force to move the jig. I have to hold down the machine and almost bang the jig over the shaft. I believe I am setting the SE 77 correctly, per the manual and all that I can find online.

Any ideas? Do the nylon bushings need a significant break-in?
David

[SharpenADullWitt]

Can you feel a burr on the shaft, how about in the bushing?
Is knob number 1 loose, so that stop is hanging down and forcing the jig off center (the only way I have got to feel binding on my 2000)?
Does the shaft feel smooth, or does it feel like there may be some sort of gunk coating it?  (wouldn't think that would be an issue with two bars)

I would look most carefully at the bushing to see if it is uniform, and didn't get deformed in the install.

[danglin]

Binding localized to the outer bushing. It looks concentric and mounted correctly, symmetric in the hole. I can't find burrs anywhere. The knobs are not hitting anything - good clearance. Have cleaned shaft with acetone, lacquer thinner. It is shiny, smooth

[grepper]

Cool.  A mystery!  There has to be an answer.

How far do you have to slide the jig onto the control bar before it starts to bind?

If you put the jig on backwards so that the outer bushing becomes the inner, does it still bind?  Does the new "outer" bushing bind?

If you slide just the outer bushing over the control bar, does it slide smoothly until the bar hits the other bushing?

Have you put a straight edge against around as much of the control bar as possible?

While highly unlikely, can you detect if either of the flanges holding the nylon bushings is bent?

As you slide the jig onto the control bar, after the inner bushing is on and just before the control bar contacts the outer bushing, does the control appear to be centered in the outer bushing?  In other words, is the jig going on the control bar straight?

Does the orientation of the jig on the control bar affect the amount of binding?

[Rem]

Howdy, danglin.  Your post was very timely as I realized I had not even taken the SE-77 out of the box.  I've had my T-8 for about three weeks or so.  So I did just that.  It was a bit of an intimidating set-up at first, but actually is quite simple and elegant. 

Mine is as smooth as the proverbial baby's butt to slide on and off.  The only thing I noticed is that if the end piece (fine adjustment) with the two little knobbies, designated as #5 in the manual, is loose or wanky, it can definitely cause a problem.   I'm sure you checked that out.   I have zero experience with this thing, so please don't take offence to my just throwing things out there.  I'm sure you know way more about it than I do.   

Anyway, without actually trying it out, it did slide on and off easily.  Try slipping on the truing tool (TT-50) to see how easily it slides on.  You may very well have a wanky SE-77.  It probably wouldn't take much of a curve to make it bind.

I hope you figure it out soon.   Please keep us posted with a post.   Good luck.  R

[danglin]

I had been doing more sleuthing - checking straightness of the shafts (both true). I have been able to isolate the binding to the outer bushing. I had reversed the SE 77, and when sliding on the shaft, the binding occurred immediately, whereas with the regular SE 77 position, the binding occurred when the outer bushing began to slide on the shaft. The inner bushing slides easily. I've been sliding the SE 77 over the shaft many times, probably a couple hundred times, with lubricant, and the pictures I'm attaching show the black color of the bushing coming off onto the shaft, forming concentric rings.

I checked to see if the position of any of the knobs made a difference, or whether the presence of a blade makes a difference - no effect. My other jigs slide on and off easily.

I think either the bushing and or/the outer hole on the jig are congenitally small.

I got this unit from Woodworker's Supply - Woodworker.com. Should contact them vs Tormek?
Thanks to all for help

David

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, David.

I will examine my SE-77 this weekend. Like you, I am retired and a grandfather. My two grandchildren live with me, and I am very involved with their school. Shop time is quite limited.

If you live close to the dealer, I would take your SE-77 and universal support back. They may be able to help you while you are there. Also, they could try another jig and/or universal support to help diagnose your problem.

Tormek support (support.tormek.se) is quite good. I use it frequently.

Please let us know what you find.

Ken

[grepper]

Looks like you have indentified that something is amiss with that bushing on the jig. 

You may be able to quickly bore out the ID of the bushing with a little bit of sandpaper and then fine steel wool to smooth the surface, but considering that it is new you may not want to pursue that path as it might preclude returning it.

Personally, I would first contact your dealer, explain your findings, and see if they will swap it out for a new one.  If you don't get satisfaction then contact support.tormek.se. 

From my personal experience Tormek really cares and stands behind their equipment.  Even if you get a new one from your dealer, Tormek might appreciate hearing about it in case others are reporting this problem and some manufacturing defect is occurring.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Personally, I would send a contact email to both.  Your within your return time frame I expect, and you have something that falls in the defective in materials or workmanship/warranty clause.  I expect your store will swap it *as long as they have one in stock; Tormek proper may specifically want to get their hands on it, to see if it was a fluke, or if there is some issue that this could start on a bunch of them, in production (example a machine goes out of alignment).

[danglin]

To followup with the group- here's what has happened. Affinity Tools sent me two replacement bushings, though Stig told them to just replace the SE 77. I didn't feel like a smaller than normal bushing was the problem, simply because I left the SE 77 on the support shaft not attached to the T8 and came by a couple of times a day and moved the jig back and forth many times. I did this probably a thousand times or more. The jig loosened up a bit, but the entire machine still rocked when I moved the jig back and forth when mounted in the T8.

The new bushing was very hard to get in place- using high end lube and tapping with a flat surface against the bushing, it finally slid in- luckily looking concentric and not deformed. The sliding force went back to what it had been at its worst. I think the outer hole on the SE 77 is just smaller in diameter than it should be, even if only by a few thousandths.
Now I'm waiting for a new SE 77- I'm told late October, even though the place where I bought it (Woodworker Supply) has one on hand per their web site. So I'm sitting here not able to do my chisels and plane irons on the T8.

[Ken S]

That's annoying. I think Stig is trying to do right by you. Unfortunately, the rest of the supply chain isn't up to speed. You shouldn't have to repair a new defective jig, nor should you have to wait if your dealer has one in stock. I would complain. Since this was a new purchase, you should get a new replacement jig quickly. End of October is not quick.

Check your messages for another one from me.

Ken

[Ken S]

Just in case......Looking down on your jig, where it says MADE IN SWEDEN, look to the left under the bottom of the adjusting screw. You should see two metal lines. These form one line when the jig is in neutral position. In the neutral position, my jig slides on easily. The further I get from neutral, the more difficult it is to mount the jig. At full camber, I can't slip the jig on the shaft.

I trust you have already checked this.

Ken

[Hatchcanyon]

At the time we got the machine and an SE-76 we had also some problems with sliding. One of the bushings was definitely to tight.

After a while it worked as expected.

Rolf

[danglin]

Yes, the binding is still there (bad) with the camber marks lined up.I had checked that

[Ken S]

I thought so, however, now we can eliminate the possibility. You should have a new jig by now..

Check your messages.

Ken