Nooitgedagt 367125 / SA-250

[Laro13]

Hello Everybody,

I have just bought an old Tormek machine for €85,-. I think it's a SA-250 licensed under the Dutch chisel brand "Nooitgedagt".
The capacitor states "85" ,so it's a bit older than I thought.







I've got two questions:

- I think it's got a sandstone, can I use the stone Grader SP-650 on it?

- The drive-wheel rubs on the side of the machine. Can I put an extra washer between the plastic bushing and the washer, to move the wheel a bit further?
  There is room for it.

Thanks!

Jasper

[Ken S]

Welcome, Jasper (Laro 13).

Nice Tormek! You should contact Tormek support in Sweden (support@tormek.se) with the vintage Tormek. They have longer memories than we do!

The sandstone grinding wheel has a finer grit than the present manmade stones. I believe the stone grader was introduced to make the manmade stones cut more like the original natural stones. Therefore, I do not think the stone grader will work with your natural stone.Update: I checked in my early handbook. The Tormek stone grader is listed for "super grind stones", meaning the man made stones. it allowed the more coarse manmade stones to also have a fine grit, like the natural stones. Incidentally, the natural stones are listed as Natural sandstone from the island of Gotland in the Baltic Sea.

The parts diagrams for later Tormek models lists a "washer for the drive wheel". Your washer may have been misplaced over the years. I think you have the good fortune of an easy, inexpensive fix!

I find the "ancestor Tormeks" fascinating. Please keep us posted.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I wonder what Tormek did back then, with those stones?  Did they use a Nagura stone?

[Ken S]

Excellent question, SADW. According to my ancient handbook, there were two truing tools: the AVD-50S with a diamond cluster for the Supergrind (manmade) stone and the AVD-50H with tungsten carbide for the original natural stone.

Those of you with natural stones might want to check with Tormek(support@tormek.se) to see if tungsten carbide components are still available.

This discussion makes me wish I had a natural stone for comparison. I gather the manmade stone is more coarse and cuts faster when graded coarse. I wonder how the manmade stone graded fine would compare with a natural stone?

Just brainstorming, two Tormeks, one with the manmade 220 stone and one with the finder natural stone would work very well together. There would be no need of grading.  Just a thought. Perhaps Sweden will chime in on this.

Ken

[Laro13]

But, I've feeling that the natural stone does not last as long as the man-made stone.

[Ken S]

I think you may be correct. The manmade stone may also more consistent grain size. This can be problematic with Arkansas stones.

What natural stones do have, worldwide, is mystique......

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I think you may be correct. The manmade stone may also more consistent grain size. This can be problematic with Arkansas stones.

What natural stones do have, worldwide, is mystique......

Ken

Mystique, also a finite resource that may require as much to make as their custom made ones, and yet not have the consistency of the grain size, or may have unseen, natural flaws.

That said, appreciate them still.  What would have happened, if we discovered metal, and there were no natural materials to help get the edges onto it? (best we could do was during the forming process)

[Ken S]

Agreed.

Ken

[Stickan]

Hi all,
As Ken S stated, these stones was from a small Island outside Swedens east coast called Gotland. It's many swedes favourite vacation place.
These stones was more sensitive to be left in water and it took longer to sharpen and definitely to remove steel.
The SG stone we made are better in every way, they last longer, don't swell, gives a better/cleaner edge and sharpens faster.
But at that time the Tormek natural stone was the best we had to offer!

Best,
Stig

[Ken S]

Good comment, Stig.

We see the same thing with bench stones. The Arksansas stones still have mystique, however, modern waterstones can be manufactured with finer, more cocsistent grain.

Ken

[Laro13]

Update:

I took Ken S advice and contacted Tormek support. I got a nice reply:

"Now thats an old model J
The SP-650 have no use on the natural stone but it seems to get small so in the near future you might need to buy a new stone.
You can use our jigs exept DBS-22 and SVP-80 as you don't have the horizontal sleeves mounted. You can upgrade your machine with that, XB-100, and you can use all jigs and methods.
Use a small washer and it will not do any wrong."

With an extra washer, the driving wheel does not rub any more. I also polished the axle at the bushing area, to remove the rust.
I have replaced the 30 year old capacitor for a new one and you really can notice the improvement. Before it was very easy to stop the stone from turning.


You can just see the the date on the old capacitor(r): "6/85"

I have ordered some jigs to practice.
In the near future I like to replace the rubber honing wheel for a leather one and I think I will also have to replace the grinding wheel and axle soon.

In the long run it would probably be cheaper to buy a new machine, but I'm a sucker for old tools/machines.

Cheers,Jasper

[Ken S]

Well done, Jasper!

I am of two minds. I appreciate the improvements in tools over the years. I also enjoy using veteran tools. I have an illogical belief that old tools may have some of the experience of former craftsmen in them. I like the camaraderie.

Do keep us posted.

Ken

[Jan]

Ken, until now for some reason I had associated the word "camaraderie" with Antoine Exupéry and his description of the relationship between the pilots. Now I see that it can be used also for our relationship to things we cherish. 

Jan

[Ken S]

Jan,

From your postings about your grandfather's mortise chisel, I sense you understand my concept of camaraderie.

Ken

[Elden]

Jan,
   In the strict sense of the definition according to the New American Oxford Dictionary, the definition of camaraderie is: "mutual trust and friendship among people who spend a lot of time together". Other dictionaries, I believe, will bear out a similar definition. The definition for affinity in the same dictionary is: "a spontaneous or natural liking or sympathy for someone or something".
   I think your original concept, thus, is correct.
   Looking a little further into the New American Ken S Dictionary, I believe, one will find that affinity does not fully describe the stated situation. I believe there is a DEEP respect for certain inanimate things that goes beyond the definition of affinity. If I am a rock climber, I have more than an affinity for my supporting gear. Will I always trust my life to it? No, I know that it will eventually have to be retired and considered unsafe for the original designed purpose.
   Therefore, I understand Ken' s usage of camaraderie. Nostalgia enters the picture and a trust developed over the years. Though maybe incorrect in definition, I understand his usage of camaraderie.
   Do you ever talk to your tools?