watch out for inflated pricing

[Ken S]

I accepted the forum moderator because it is satisfying to help new Tormek owners become satisfied, skilled Tormekers. The Tormek system, in my opinion, is the most flexible sharpening system available.

That stated, I become very annoyed with deceptive and inflated pricing. I found a blatent price mismatch on the large online retailer yesterday. I sent an email to the Tormek dealer who supposedly handles this item for the retailer. I was polite and received a polite reply that the large online retailer determined the price. It was beyond their control. I could purchase the item fron the online retailer for $132.95 or directly from the Tormek dealer for$109. The online price was allegedly a discount from the $184 list price. $184 actually is the correct list for the a similar item sized for 250mm (T7).

This is not the first time I have encountered this kind of situation.

I urge prospective Tormek buyers to consult known authorized dealers and their national importer to learn the correct list prices and current Tormek items.

[jeffs55]

Caveat emptor was a good idea. I always check more than one source for items. List price is not even important if you can't get it for that. There have been some highly desirable products that were in short supply and sold for more than list. It is a guide line for what the manufacturer thinks an item should sell for but if you can't get it for that and must have it, what are you going to do? Just check more than one source. Ebarf can be a good place to look, Amazon of late has turned into a retail store outlet for many items. You can still get deals on there but don't think that just because it is on Amazon that it will be the best deal going. For instance, a lot of people think that WalMart is the cheapest place to buy groceries. WalMart has done a superb job of advertising that you can live better for less by buying there. A lot of people in America are just clueless. Among my many sayings is this one, "if you can buy it on sale at a grocery store, it will be cheaper than at WalMart." The reason is that the large chain grocery stores use so called "loss leaders" to get people in the store in the hope that they buy other high mark up merchandise. They sell you the eggs for cheap but raise the price on bread to cover it. Then..............you have to walk to the bread and they entice you with high mark up displays of other stuff that you probably don't even need or want but it is pretty. It is all fair, if you are not careful enough to look around for the best deal, then you get what you deserve. All this barring extenuating circumstances of course.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Caveat emptor is right.

A few years back, there was a push by Tormek and other manufacturers to pull items from places, and have only "authorized" resellers.  Tormek disappeared from Amazon.  As  Amazon grew more, places like Advanced machinery (when Jeff was still the moderator), decided it was cost effective to have an Amazon presence/storefront.  They were not the only ones.
Something I have seen before, is one seller, whose Ebay price was one thing, their Amazon store front was another, and their website price could be a third.  The reason, they are covering the costs associated with selling on those site.
No different then Amazon having free shipping (it tends to be included in the prices of stuff, but you may not see it on certain items, because they have more items to spread it over).
Part of the reason for Tormeks push, was controlled pricing, or minimum pricing.  This is NOT the same as price fixing/collusion in which various retailers get together to set prices on things, as this is contractually done via the manufacturer.
That said, paying more for an item, isn't always the most expensive thing.  To use Jeff's grocery store analogy, sometimes you could pay more for those chips at one store, but that saves you on gas, time and other not planed for expenses, going to another store.  In the Amazon analogy, it would be paying a bit more there, for a filler item to get you to the free shipping point, verses walking in a local store and buying more then you wanted.  (done that with a closeout tool store that is local to me)
My complex $.02

[Ken S]

I understand what you are saying. Finding the ideal price for something means weighing in total cost: the item,delivery costs, whether paying shipping or the cost and time of driving to get it, and sales tax.

I think a good example of this is Tormek honing compound. We can buy it any day from an authorized brick and mortar dealer for $10 plus any applicable tax. If I happen to be at the store anyway, this is cost effective. The local dealer in my city is around a half hour drive each way for me. If I find it on Ebay for $13 with free shipping, or for $10 with $2.95 shipping, that's cost effective. Add in Ohio Sales tax on Amazon to those prices, and I have to think more. A quick look on eBay will show many prices, some considerably higher.

I understand shipping costs are costs for the seller, and have no problem with that. An extreme example is the TS-740 Tormek Work Station. The list price is $699. Shipping costs run somewhere near $50. (it is a large box weighing 93 pounds.)  I would consider $749 with free shipping fair or $699 plus reasonable shipping also fair. I question the Amazon price of $849 with free shipping.

I realize ebay and Amazon have fees for sellers. However, these sellers often have no or less brick and mortar costs.

I leave it up the the individual buyers to determine how and where they wish to make purchases. I began this topic to help make those who are interested aware of some of the pitfalls some of which seem blatant to me.

Ken

[Ken S]

I found another online example of what I consider blatantly deceiving pricing. Google "Tormek SVS-186". A listing comes up with a price of $97. That's fine, as it is list price. However, it lists the price as $179 reduced to $97. That seems at the very least confusing to me.

This is yet another example of why one must be very careful ordering Tormek online. I reaffirm my preference to stick with authorized dealers, and double check them.

Ken

[Ken S]

I have already written enough about this. I will leave this issue with a parting thought:

Before purchasing anything Tormek online, please check the pricing with the Tormek national agent/importer. The importer is your best source of accurate pricing.

Ken

[jeffs55]

Ken, we do not want accurate pricing; we want cheap pricing. MSRP is never a good price to pay. When was the last time you paid MSRP for an automobile? Get the point? When anything is in such high demand that the maker controls the price, as in the diamond consortium known as DeBeers; they win, we lose. I do not know about the rest of you fellows but I am always looking for the best aka lowest price. On the same item of course.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

Like you, I am a bargain hunter. I have never complained about a discount price online or anywhere else. Most of my Tormek jigs and accessories were purchased at woodworking shows at twenty percent discount. My complaint is with the vendors who jack up the prices or allow third parties to do so. This is often under the guise of "free shipping". I also get annoyed with vendors who sell at list price and pretend it is a huge discount.

My reason for these postings is to encourage new buyers to become aware of the true list prices of Tormek items. You follow eBay. I'm sure you notice that while some of the listings are for an accurate price, many are very inflated. An online listing for the TS-740 Work Station illustrates this. The list price is $699. The package weighs 93 pounds, so shipping generally runs somewhere near $50. This listing shows "free shipping" at the price of $849. Do the math. All three reviews on the site complain about Tormek's price being too high. Compared with a similar Kennedy tool chest, the Tormek price is actually reasonable. When a dealer tacks on an extra hundred dollars beyond reasonable shipping, I find that annoying.

Ken

[jeffs55]

You are totally right of course. My comment was more to elicit a laugh than to correct you and you knew that. I too have one or three of those Chinese type cleavers and am now the proud owner of three or two genuine made in China cleavers. I once tried to hand sharpen one of these with mixed results. The results were mixed between not sharp and sharp. Hand sharpening is an art that I have yet to master. Why do I have more than one of each of these? Initially to give as gifts and then because I love a bargain as you know. When is a bargain no longer a bargain? When you buy things you don't need. I bought 100 shelf supports the other day. They were four inches on each leg, just right for a small wooden shelf; but 100! Why, because they were only 25¢ each shipping paid.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I'm confused. Did you mean to post this in this topic or the other topic? 

Ken

[jeffs55]

Help me Ken, put it where it belongs. I live in confusion with occasional lapses into reality.