Carbon Steel Knives

[mrakaaka]

Hello All:

I just purchased a T-7.... my wife has several "favorite" Carbon Steel knives..
Can I use the standard set up (Sharpening stone and Hone) on these...and at what angle should I
sharpen at... I can't mess these up...!
Thanks for any input!

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum. Use the standard knife jigs and original SG-250 wheel. I suggest grading it fine before working on your wife's knives. It makes the process "kinder and gentler".

Twenty degrees for each bevel (twenty degrees combined total) is a good starting point.

Do a google search and find Jeff Farris' you tubes on using the Tormek. The knife sharpening you tube will give you a good start.

You might start out with a less valuable knife.

Good luck and don't hesitate to post questions and results.

Ken

[Jan]

Welcome to the forum Mrakaaka. 

I agree with Ken, it is highly recommendable to practice sharpening on some discarded knife.

When you are yet not able to set the edge angle, just replicate the existing angle using the marker method described in the Handbook. You can measure the edge angle using the grooves of the AngleMaster. Edge angels of my kitchen knives are between 20° and 30°.

Good luck!

Jan

[SharpenADullWitt]

The anglemaster has spots to determine what angle the knife is/was.  Harder to do on a dull knife, but it may have a sharp spot one can still check.  Marker method is another valid and good method to learn.
What style of knives are they?  Western style kitchen knives are generally 20 degree's, while Eastern style kitchen knives (and some of the custom Japanese ones I see selling here, that are still carbon steel), are generally 15 degrees.
Can't mess them up, DON'T start with them.  LEARN first on some old, or inexpensive knife (garage sales, cheap knife from store, freebie someone gives you, etc).  Happy wife, happy life and you don't want to get it just sharp enough for her to only be happy using in on her husband.

[Herman Trivilino]

I would recommend that you first practice with an inexpensive knife of moderate length. Set the angle to 20° or so.

It would be even better if you started with chisels before moving on to that inexpensive knife. Good light and a magnifier are also highly recommended. One of the hardest things to determine is when to stop grinding. If you stop before you reach the edge you'll never get it sharp. I like to check my progress by wiping the opposite side on a clean cloth towel. I examine the edge closely to make sure fibers from the cloth have snagged all along it. That way I know for sure I've raised a burr and can switch grinding sides. Some steel is harder than others to raise a burr. The Tormek is a great tool, but it takes some practice to get up to speed. I suggest you read through this thread:

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=post;quote=6109;topic=1565.0;last_msg=14146

The thread was originally designed as a guide for beginners, but unfortunately it still has a lot of the temporary messages that were part of the construction process. You can skip those.

Your patience will be rewarded when your wife uses one of those knives.

Do not wash them in the dishwasher. Or put more than one at a time is a sink full of soapy water, that's a good way to get cut. Working with sharp knives and sharp tools is whole different experience.

I still remember how working with sharp chisels opened up whole new world for me. Prior to that I had always hacked away at the wood. Keep in mind, though, that I'm just a former carpenter. The finest chisel work I ever do is mortise for a hinge.

[Ken S]

I recently purchased an inexpensive ($12US) Kitchenaid knife at my local grocery. I wanted a practice knife for sharpening and for making photographs of various stages of sharpening. It is not a bad knife. It has no sharpening problems. It is an easy learning knife. My point is an easy knife might facilitate learning for not a lot of money. It also works as a knife.....

Comments?

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

If you own a Tormek I really don't see any advantage to owning expensive kitchen knives. All knives get dull and need sharpening. Keep a steel in the kitchen knife drawer for touch ups. It's a necessity.

[grepper]

I ditto the really good advice to start on practice knives!  Try it with the wheel dressed to a fine grit, then to a coarse grit.  Learn how each behaves.  Really hard steel can take forever to grind.  Soft steel can just melt away under your fingers.  So with your wife's knives, go gently and slowly at first until you understand what you are working with.

As mentioned previously, coat the bevel with a marker, put it in the jig and scrub it horizontally, or turn the wheel by hand.  Then look for where the ink has been removed.  That will show you the existing angel.  Make it the same if you wish.

But really, you can make it any angle you wish.  Smaller angle may cut a little better but may not hold up as well.  After a while you will find the sweet spot between cut and edge longevity.  Kitchen knives are generally sharpened from 12 – 20 degrees.

One thing to note is that if  you start with say 20 degrees and want to make it be 15 degrees, when you first start grinding, the grindstone will not actually be touching the edge because it is riding higher up on the bevel.  Until you grind the bevel down so the wheel is actually touching the cutting edge, obviously, the knife will not get sharper. 

Salvation Army stores and others of the same ilk are a great resource for cheap knives.  Apparently folks like to donate old knives.  It's one thing they are never short of, and keep getting new stock all the time.  The SA store near me has a whole box of old knives for $0.50 each.  Occasionally there are some really good deals because to the people running the store apparently all old knives are basically the same.

[mrakaaka]

Hello All..
Thanks for all the responses...I have spent the day with my new best buddy Tormek... I had a bunch of old knives and have heeded everyones  suggestions.... getting the idea of angles and what this machine can do... Amazing to realize what sharp really means!  Thanks again for all the input!   

[SharpenADullWitt]

Ken, Grepper

Thanks for posting the prices on those knives.  It gives me a better idea of what might be good price ranges for practice stuff.
Between a damaged freight store, a local restaurant supply house, a local sharpening/knife specialty store (that sells used knives and deals with swapping out restaurants and equipment the Tormek won't do, like Slicer knives), I've got a good idea of what is reasonable to spend.

[mrakaaka]

K guys...another day messing with Tormek..I have a question on the universal bar setting...is it better to use the setting on the jig to dial in the correct angle...or do it on the universal bar?  When I use the universal bar...I first have to lock in the appropriate height for the knife size I am sharpening...correct...then when I try to use the "dial" on the one side for precise lineup..it really does not seem to move the knife all that much?  What am I doing wrong?  Thank You!

[Herman Trivilino]

When I use the universal bar...I first have to lock in the appropriate height for the knife size I am sharpening...correct...then when I try to use the "dial" on the one side for precise lineup..it really does not seem to move the knife all that much?

When you say "lock in the appropriate height" do you mean tighten the locking screw? The locking screw must be loose when turning the adjusting nut on the universal support.

[Jan]

Mrakaaka, I think you do not make any mistake. 

One revolution of the micro-adjust wheel means elevation of the universal support by 1.5 mm (0.06"). This will increase the distance between the support and the stone, and cause that the bevel angle will typically increase by 1 degree.

You may need many micro-adjust revolutions to set the bevel to touch the grindstone correctly.

Jan

[Ken S]

.Mrakaaka,

I have put together a pdf with photographs showing how to build and use a kenjig. The kenjig is my idea for simply, accurately, and repeatably setting up the knife jigs. It is on the forum somewhere. I can't locate it on the forum. Perhaps someone else can locate it. (Thanks in advance!)

If you send me a PM (private message) with your email address, I will email it to you. It is very easily made at home and should serve you well.

Ken

[mrakaaka]

I realize that the universal support in the vertical (back of the machine) needs to be lifted to accommodate the size of the knife to the stone.... And then for the micro-adjust to work..that not to lock the set knob but fine dial the proper degree with the micro-adjust...  Getting the idea for proper angle...  A lot to learn here... Thanks for the responses....  I just tried Steve Bottorff's way of doing it with the universal in the horizontal position... I almost like this better....