Japanese 800 grit wheel is now available from a German seller

[Rem]

Perhaps it's time for Tormek to seriously consider the profitability of producing a few additional grindstones of various grit.   

Hmmmm ......  grit ....  that made me hungry for some grits.    More later .....   R   

[Hatchcanyon]

Support the idea!

I would ask for a stone good enough for HSS and a grit of 80.

How about a CBN stone?

Rolf

[Ken S]

Rolf,

You can get most of what you want. CBN wheels are available for around $300 US. One brand matches Tormek's 250 mm x 50mm size with grits as coarse as 200. Another brand sells 80 or 180 grit wheels slightly narrower (40mm). According to Dave at D Way, his CBN wheels can be used wet or dry. My choice would be to use the wheel wet, and take advantage of the cool, dust and spark free environment.

My first choice would be a Tormek CBN wheel, which is not presently available. I have no inside information, however, I would be surprised if Tormek is not developing one.

I have posted about my choice, Norton 3X 46 and 80 grit wheels 200mm x 25mm. The size is not ideal, however, I know from personal experience that these wheels work very well. The 46 grit made quick work (about five minutes) of reshaping a gouge from jig setting 2 to 4. The gouge remained quite cool during the wet grinding process. The 3X wheels cost around $50 US each, and need a simple homemade adaptor to match Tormek's 12 mm shaft.

Again, not the same as a Tormek wheel, however, for fifty bucks either of these work amazingly well.

Ken

[Hatchcanyon]

Ken,

thank you very much for all the information.

May I ask which brand has 250 x 50 mm? At D Way I only find one with 38 mm and the wheel will not fit the Tormek shaft.

Rolf

[Ken S]

Rolf,

Here is a link.

D-Way can provide a 12mm bushing.

Duty calls. More later.

Ken

http://woodturnerswonders.com/products/tormek-cbn-wheel-600-grit-10-x-2-inch-12mm-arbor

[Herman Trivilino]

The availability of Tormek-like machines, jigs, and grindstones is a testament to the success of the Tormek brand.

It's a credit to Tormek that they even allow discussion of these products here on their very own message board. Apparently they have confidence in the quality of their own products, which is based on the fact that their products do indeed perform very well. Moreover, when problems do arise Tormek is diligent about making amends and corrections.

[wootz]

Rolf,

Here is a link.

D-Way can provide a 12mm bushing.

Duty calls. More later.

Ken

http://woodturnerswonders.com/products/tormek-cbn-wheel-600-grit-10-x-2-inch-12mm-arbor

Thank you so much for this info, Ken.
Now I seriously consider getting some from them, and hope, as one of the customer reviews there says, that these CBN wheels will make me love my Tormek even more.

Can you guys think of any potential pitfalls with CBN wheels use on Tormek?

[Ken S]

Wootz,

I can't locate it now, however, I remember reading one CBN dealer's claim that he had sold "thousands" of his CBN wheels to Tormek users. As I can't locate the quote now, consider it hearsay evidence, not associated with any particular company.

What puzzles me is that I have not encountered any of these thousands of wheels even though I do occasionally follow the Tormek forum

Drawbacks? Let's call them concerns or considerations:

My first concern would be getting a well made 12mm bushing adaptor, preferably in stainless steel. I would prefer to purchase the adaptor from the same source as the wheel, but, for me, stainless would be the first consideration.

Ideally, I would like a CBN wheel to be the same dimentions, both diameter and thickness, as the Tormek I was using. This may involve compromising on one or both dimensions.

Unfortunately, we don't have much data involving choice of grit. I would hope to only need one CBN wheel. Again, this may involve some thoughtful compromise. My personal choice of grit would be influenced by my oreference to use it wet. I have a belt grinder, another useful tool. I like it, but I spent as much time keeping the ground object cool as in actual grinding. I also dislike all the loose grinding dust.

I would question the CBNdealers about the possibility of rust when using the wheels wet. Dave at D Way has told me his wheels work wet or dry. I did not specifically ask him about any rust issues. (Dave uses his wheels dry on a high speed grinder.)

One of the comments on the Tornado site mentioned a preference to use the wheel wet. No mention of using a magnet with the water trough. As the debris is all metal, I would consider a magnet, either built in or taped/glued on, a real improvement. The T8's removable magnet is ideal. the metal particles are held in place and then can be released.

I would inquire about using honerite with the water. Considering not having to true a constant diameter wheel, I would consider the cost of the honerite a bargain.

I purchased the two 3x wheels I tested. I did this as a forum project, as I have no need for reshaping. I have considered purchasing at least one CBN wheel for forum testing. The constraint for me is the three hundred US dollar price tag. I would think differently if I was an active turneror a professional sharpener.

Do keep us posted if you decide to try a CBN wheel.

Ken

[Rem]

Is there any reason to think that (unlikely but potential) warranty issues with the basic Tormek unit, 2 / 3 / 5 years down the road, might call into question the use of non-Tormek accessories (grinding wheels) ??  R

[SharpenADullWitt]

At least some of the wheels sold were steel.  I would check the shaft and bushings more often with them, as I haven't found a weight compared to the Tormek stones.  It seems that some changed to aluminum (and others may have always been that way).  There are multiple sellers, and some do have the correct diameter wheel, as well as the correct shaft diameter.  (I think they may be more across the pond sellers, several of the US ones I saw, show 1/2" arbor)
Now there have been many low post members that popped in and out over the years, and probably more that never registered and just searched and left.  How many Tormeks have been sold?  Thousands of those wheels sold for them, makes me wonder if Ken branched out to any other forums?  A quick Google search, leads me to several posts in a woodworking forum I used to visit.  There are discussions about grit, wet or dry (and towel drying), rust, etc.  From my limited reading, it seems the while both kinds of woodworkers use them, turners use them more and yet lots more use them on a bench grinder, with the BGM kit.

I doubt a consumable would affect the warranty.

[wootz]

All valid points, and keep me thinking.

What also concerns me is the claimed advantage of a CBN wheel that you won't ever have to true it may turn into headache of bringing the Universal Support in parallel with the wheel surface.
I mean there are quite a few variables you have to bring together to have it true: the shaft and its bushings, the washer, the wheel radius consistency, and square position of the Universal Support in the sleeves. With regular stones we match them all together by truing, but it may be hard to fix the mismatch with CBN wheels.

On the positive note, the make at the Ken's link doesn't seem to need a bushing adaptor for Tormek, and is electroplated i.e. should last forever.

Curiosity killed the cat...

[Ken S]

There is much that i do not know about CBN wheels. Using any wheel weighing more than the Tormek wheels would concern me. I don't know enough to know if extra weight would cause a problem, or if, indeed CBN wheels actually weigh more than Tormek wheels.

I have no idea if there might be a warranty issue.

I regularly do google searches, and have found posts from other forums. For the record, I do not belong or post to any other forums. The only exception to this is my very inactive membership in the Yahoo Tormek forum, if that forum is still a going concern.

Without knocking any particular forum, it seemed that many of the posts were made by members who were not Tormek users.

I'll take my chances with our group. We don't know everything, but we are all Tormek users, helpful, and curious.

Ken

[WolfY]

This is very interesting topic. Sorry I haven't been active lately but I follow in stealth mode

Lately I had a client that claimed he had a problem sharpening a knife with his brand new T-8 and SG250 wheel.
He trued the wheel and nothing happened. I was surprised and puzzled as it is not normal, and asked him to pay me a visit with this knife and some more tools he had to get instruction with.

Looking at the knife and putting it on my SG stone confirmed. Then I told him I suspect this is a ceramic knife. He said he didn't think so but he got it from a fiend and was not 100% sure.

I was happy as this is my first time to deal with ceramic knife. I changed the SG to the SB and started the session.

Very quickly it started to sharpen and looking with the loop it confirmed that this is ceramic.

Guess what? He left home with a brand new SB-250 stone happy to be able to continue to sharpen the rest of his 900 piece collection that include hard steel knives too.

I also had 10 chefs knifes that was so dull I could not cut a lettuce with them. Micro bevel was rounded. Perfect job for the SB-250.

I'm not sure I would like to go for a cheap Tormek stone substitut. In order to do that a real test one to one should be performed by the seller in order to convince me els.

[Ken S]

Interesting post, WolfY. You are part of a slowly growing number of members reporting good results with the SB grinding wheel.

Do you use a different technique when sharpening with the SB? Specifically, do you place less pressure on the knife against the SB than when you use the SG? I ask this because I believe we have members who are getting poor results with the SB. I do not believe the problem is with the SB itself, as demonstrated by your successful use. I do believe there is an instruction gap with the SB. Your customer is fortunate. He had the opportunity to observe you skillfully using both the SG and the SB and learn the purpose of the SB. He should have good success sharpening his knife collection because of your instruction.

I agree with you about cheap wheels, which are often not so inexpensive. The only reason I started working with the coarse Norton 3X wheels was because Tormek does not sell coarse wheels. My first has always been to use Tormek products. In this case, I had no Tormek choice. I could have used a BGM-100 and my dry grinder, but that choice includes a lot of heat and dust.

CBN wheels are expensive, and a pair of quality whees sized for the Tormek will probably cost more than a new T8. When used with dry grinders, they are typically used in pairs. 80 and 180 grit is a common combination for turning tools. 600 grit, with a back up of 325 is what Tormek uses with its diamond wheels for the T4. I suspect we will soon be wanting 1000 grit and finer. At that point, some of us will lust after multiple Tormeks so we don't have to change wheels.

We have come a long way from Torgny's simple drill powered one wheel wet grinder. Or have we? I think today's adaptable, more sophisticated machine is a tribute to Torgny.

[Rem]

Lately I had a client that claimed he had a problem sharpening a knife with his brand new T-8 and SG250 wheel.

A most timely post, Wolfy.  I had been trying to sharpen a basic, large kitchen knife all weekend and it just wouldn't do it.  It should have been the simplest knife in the box to sharpen, based on my woefully inadequate experience.  Just wouldn't do it.  The only thing my limited thinking could come up with was that it was just very hard steel.  So I just proceeded to grind the snot out of it on the SG, and VOILA .... I finally came out with a decent edge on it.   

Is there a simple "litmus" test to determine what kind (hardness) of steel you are dealing with?   I am a neophyte in these matters.  Would appreciate comments on this.   I'm happy to pick up an SB if it is warranted.   Lee Valley has FREE SHIPPING on right now.   BOO-YAH  !!!!      Thanks.   R