Sharpening for a better burr

[Ken S]

Doug,

I just made some photos of a primitive but workable prototype which includes height adjustment.  I agree about this being more than just training wheels. For many users it might be a  permanent solution. For others it might be the bridge which helps them develop the necessary muscle memory. Either way, I believe it is worth pursuing.

I will email the photos and ask another member to post them. I am an old hand with film cameras, including wooden view cameras and in the darkroom, however, this Neanderthal fumbles with photobucket.

Ken

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[Herman Trivilino]

Your photos make clear an idea that occurred to me recently:  that laser line, once it's positioned at the right spot on the wheel, is something of a real-time knife-setting template/positioning guide for Herman's jig.

It may actually be easier and faster to use the Angle Master. The laser line may be more precise if that's an issue.

[grepper]

Ken S. sent these images to me and asked me to post them.

(grepper sez:) Cool idea!  Simple and quick version of the famous Herman's tool rest.

[Ken S]

Thanks, Mark, (grepper) for posting the photos for me. I must become digitized someday.

The photos show how the SVD-110 platform jig can be used with no alteration. Ionut used a clamp for his small knife jig. Herman's more finished jig is certainly more permanent in construction. Ionut designed his jig for very small knives, the original purpose for the jig. Herman thinks more broadly.

Please note that one of the reasons my jigs are so primitive is that they are often prototypes and quickly replaced. Making a prototype early in the planning stages helps weed out unworkable ideas. The photographs were made this afternoon and already I have a couple new ideas. The knockabout construction is to quickly illustrate the idea.

The extra thickness of this jig was to bring up the platform surface to a level where it would encounter the eighteen degree mark recommended by Steve and remain in a level position. This level position keeps the knife flat while being sharpened. This allows a bridge between using the Tormek knife jigs and freehand sharpening. I do not believe this bridge is an ideal solution. A knife well secured in a jig should have a more consistent bevel and the person who can do a fine job of freehand sharpening is far more skilled. The bridge is a compromise. While not as precise as using a jig, setup is much faster. While not developing operator skill to the extent as a skilled freehand sharpener, the bridge allows a sharpener of lesser skill to produce workmanlike results.

Some design parameters:

The platform, at least the top part, should be no wider than the width of the grinding wheel.This is already established with Herman's small knife jig. This allows the full length of a knife blade to be sharpened from either side of the wheel.

The height of the platform should be quickly adjustable to compensate for different bevel angles and the wear of the grinding wheel. I believe the most practical solution for this is to make the platform in layers. The top layer should be simple. It will be the layer most exposed to water an should have some water repellent finish.

As shown in the photographs, there are two layers of cardboard beneath the wood. These are shims to being the platform up to proper level. Ideally one would not need such shims with better construction. However, shims could be devised to compensate for the heart of the stone. The thickest shim would be for the full diameter. Progressively thinner shims would be for the wheel when reduced by use. The shims should be carefully marked with the wheel diameter.

Interchangeable inner pieces could be made up and marked for different bevel angles. Steve's recommended eighteen degree primary bevel for kitchen knives should certainly be the first one. A second one could be designated for hunting knives.

The manner of securing the thickness pieces to the platform jig can be settled in different ways. My first jigs were drilled and tapped. The platforms are secure, however, my machining skills are lacking. If I was working at a place like a farmer's market where the public regularly viewed my set up, I would redo the jigs and have the work done by a machine shop in order to look professional.

A simple clamp works adequately. In fact, I would recommend beginning with a clamp. You can always add a bolt.If using a bolt, I would recommend a carriage bolt with a wing nut or something similar beneath the Tormek platform. The angle changing shims could even be U shaped to allow quicker changes.

Please note the marked top line and eighteen degree line on the stone, as described by Steve in both his book and DVD.

Also to be noted is the use of the SB-250 blackstone. I mounted it on my Tormek this weekend to begin another attempt to make nice with it. My initial results were disappointing. I hope to find that the stone works fine with my increased knowledge. Time will tell, and I will post the results.

I purchased a second scissors jig (used) this last week. I will convert it into one of Herman's HK-50 jigs. I happen to like the Tormek small knife tool. I think the jig we are developing here will be useful. Herman's jig is not eclipsed by either. I like to have options.

Ken

[Jan]

Thank you Ken for posting recent photographs of your jig prototype. 

The figures are illustrative and very inspiring. There is beauty in simplicity!

Thanks also for the detailed description, which facilitates consideration of this solution. Please let us know in future how the jig works.

I am sure your jig would benefit from the laser line on the stone.

Jan

[Ken S]

Thanks, Jan.

I will certainly post progress reports. I have the feeling that whatever more finished version I might build at this point will eventually be considered another prototype.That seems to be the Tormek way. I found an earlier version of the anglemaster on Ebay. I almost bought it as a curiosity. It is the WM-100. For its time, it was a clever idea. It is now totally overshadowed by the much improved present anglemaster, the WM-200. The original diamond truing tool has also been superseded by the much improved present version. The present version, drawing upon the micro adjust feature of the latest version of the universal support allows very controlled fine grinding with a screw drive.

I have posted my belief that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg with Herman's HK-50. A raised platform for Herman's jig with a clearance area for very short chisels is only the first adaptation of the jig. I think more will surface as we encounter more areas in need of improvement.

One of the things which has fascinated me with the Tormek is its combination of simplicity and versatility. Simple knife sharpening combined with laser technology. Amazing! I have thought that the technology of sharpening turning tools was more advanced than other areas with the Tormek. I still feel that way, however, knife sharpening is quickly closing the gap. There is an old saying that many hands make light work. I also believe that many minds make better work.

I look forward to seeing what develops.

Ken

[Jan]

Ken, because I do not have Steve book or DVD, I would like ask you, whether there exist some web page where the flat platform concept is described.

I have probably saw it somewhere in the past, but I have lost the link. 

Jan

[SharpOp]

It may actually be easier and faster to use the Angle Master. The laser line may be more precise if that's an issue.

Easier and faster to use the Angle Master to repeatedly, individually, set the bevel angles of successive knives than to set the laser level (and/or a version of your platform jig) once for everything-at-18-degrees (or something like that -- most kitchen knives)?

I think we might have a disconnect here, cuz I don't understand how that could be.  What did I miss?   

  ~Doug

[SharpOp]

. . . . because I do not have Steve book or DVD, I would like ask you, whether there exist some web page where the flat platform concept is described.

I think Herman's video provides a pretty thorough introduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWAkQmoU8c

~Doug

[Jan]

Thank you Doug, for providing the link. 

I know Herman's video, what I had in my mind were some geometrical considerations similar to booklet Grinding Angle Adjustment by Ton Nillesen (Dutchman).

Meanwhile I understood the how the "dead centre mark on the grinding wheel" concept works. It's a wonderfully simple but effective. Hats off. Really nice application of a well-known geometrical theorem.

Jan

[Elden]

Jan,
   Check out Steve's website.   On it you will find links to five chapters that I believe are from his book Sharpening Made Easy. It is free material. It not discussing the platform concept as I remember, but is good material to read.

http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/

[Jan]

Thank you Elden for your tip.

Meanwhile I have found the forgotten web page. May be you know it. I have found there many useful information. The link is: http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/grinder.html

Jan

[Jan]

I think the SVD-110 tool rest is probably the most appropriate base for this.  I've ordered a spare to dedicate to the research.

Now, we need a height-adjustable version of Herman's tool rest knife jig.

Doug, Ken, maybe I have a proposal for you, how to assemble height-adjustable version of Herman's tool rest knife jig. Use two wedges made of (hard)wood.

Use of wooden wedges for a similar purpose, is mentioned in a chapter "Another angle setting jig" on the following www page http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/grinder.html#drop

Jan

[Herman Trivilino]

Easier and faster to use the Angle Master to repeatedly, individually, set the bevel angles of successive knives than to set the laser level (and/or a version of your platform jig) once for everything-at-18-degrees (or something like that -- most kitchen knives)?

I think we might have a disconnect here, cuz I don't understand how that could be.  What did I miss?   

I can set the platform to an 18 degree angle quickly and easily using the Angle Master. Once that's done I can sharpen as many knives as I want at an 18 degree bevel never again needing to measure anything.

[SharpOp]

Doug, Ken, maybe I have a proposal for you, how to assemble height-adjustable version of Herman's tool rest knife jig. Use two wedges made of (hard)wood.

Good idea and good link, Jan.

To build the laser/platform jig combination I had in mind, we'd need some largish wedges. 



Not too large for practicality, though, I think.

  ~Doug