New Tormek user with a few questions

[arnman]

I acquired a used Tormek 2000 Supergrind this past weekend.  It appears to be in good condition, with evidence of very light use.  I spent a few hours reading through this forum already, and I am glad to have a resource like this!  I have a few questions up front as I get ready for use, and to make a few upgrades.

I will mostly use this machine for sharpening plane irons and chisels.  I would like to also sharpen knives and scissors, and I see strong potential for me to sharpen scrapers, planer and jointer blades, and probably many other things.

I hate to overthink some of the small things, so who better to ask than some seasoned users?

1) TT-50 
I have not used the machine yet, because the stone appears to be very badly out of round (as much as 1/8", based on visual observation).  I will be ordering the TT-50.

2) New Universal Support
The literature states that the old Universal Support can be used for the TT-50, but advises that the new Universal Support has benefits.  I would appreciate comments on need for the new version, based on the experience of other users.  If it will give better results for truing, and has benefits for other applications, I will make the investment.

3) Horizontal Support
My current horizontal support only has one thumb screw to secure the Universal Support.  Without exerting very much force on the Universal Support (where a jig would be mounted), I can easily deflect the arm of the Universal Support (1/16" ?), and I can also see movement of the "non-secured" arm of the Universal Support in the horizontal support.  I realize this arrangement has provided excellent results for other users for many years, but it makes me wonder if the new Horizontal Support (with two thumb screws) would reduce unwanted movement when the machine is in use (when it matters).  After all, the improvements were developed for a reason.

4) Grading Stone
The grading stone appears to be dished.  Maybe improper use of the grading stone caused the sharpening stone to be out of round.  Any advice for flattening the grading stone?

It is easy to see that the cost of upgrades adds up, but these pieces seem to be an important part of the function of the machine.  I don't want to start off on the wrong foot by taking a short-cut.

Any responses to my items listed, or other general comments, would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Steve

[Ken S]

Steve, welcome to the forum. First, I will admit my bias to minimizing or eliminating as many frustrations to learning as possible. In a nutshell, I would recommend purchasing a TT-50, and upgrading/replacing the other three.

The TT-50 is a must have item. I don't think Tormeks should be sold without them. Dressing and truing the grinding wheel is essential. I would caution to work with very light cuts. Key words are very light.

The universal support can certainly be used without the micro adjust, but why? The new improved model is easier to use. Neither a replacement universal support or a horizontal support are very expensive. Eliminate the gremlins. Make your Tormek solid.

A new tone grader is not expensive, either. I recently almost ruined a two hundred dollar  diamond flat plate truing my grandfather's carborundum bench stone. That was really dumb. Replace the grader and march on.

Being a usually thrifty tinkerer, I would recommend you not discard the old items. You may find innovative uses for them later. In the  meantime, make your first Tormek days as smooth and enjoyable as possible.  Keep posting.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Hello Arnman and welcome to the forum. Did the machine come with the older Straight Edge jig or the newer Square Edge jig? You will need one of these.

http://tormek.com/international/en/grinding-jigs/se-76-square-edge-jig/

Likely you have the older Straight Edge jig. That's the one I have and it works well, but you may want to consider that upgrade. You'll also need the Scissors Jig.

2) New Universal Support
The literature states that the old Universal Support can be used for the TT-50, but advises that the new Universal Support has benefits.  I would appreciate comments on need for the new version, based on the experience of other users.  If it will give better results for truing, and has benefits for other applications, I will make the investment.

I took my older Universal Support, threaded the one rod, and made a micro adjuster from a nut.

3) Horizontal Support
My current horizontal support only has one thumb screw to secure the Universal Support.  Without exerting very much force on the Universal Support (where a jig would be mounted), I can easily deflect the arm of the Universal Support (1/16" ?), and I can also see movement of the "non-secured" arm of the Universal Support in the horizontal support.  I realize this arrangement has provided excellent results for other users for many years, but it makes me wonder if the new Horizontal Support (with two thumb screws) would reduce unwanted movement when the machine is in use (when it matters).  After all, the improvements were developed for a reason.

Mine is the same. I suppose you could drill a hole and tap it if you didn't want to spend the money on the upgrade and are sure you need it.

4) Grading Stone
The grading stone appears to be dished.  Maybe improper use of the grading stone caused the sharpening stone to be out of round.  Any advice for flattening the grading stone?

A concave surface on the fine side of the stone grader actually makes it work better.

It is easy to see that the cost of upgrades adds up, but these pieces seem to be an important part of the function of the machine.  I don't want to start off on the wrong foot by taking a short-cut.

It takes a while anyway to learn this machine. You can do the upgrades later if you think you need them. Of course, if your budget allows you could make them now. I think either strategy would work.

[arnman]

Thanks Herman and Ken.  I appreciate the responses.  You both bring up some good ideas to consider.

I have the older straight edge jig right now.  I figure I will get my feet wet with that one and decide if I need to upgrade to the new version.

I will get the stone trued and may be back with more questions.

Steve

[SharpenADullWitt]

Stone grader
There are a few posts on the forum about the stone grader and it being dished.  I see a few comments but don't know where the original thread it about using the edge of the stone grader.
Examples
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2268.msg10902#msg10902
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2330.msg11313#msg11313
Universal support
My 2000 has a threaded bar with a black nut.  I don't remember if I had and gave my dad the non threaded one (its late and I can't sleep or think straight now).  If yours is threaded, then the differences between that and the current one (based on the time frame before the T-7) is it had the black knob that changed to a silver one with grading.  And the bar has a hole in the end for some jigs to use a knob to keep from running off.
IMHE, I don't think the markings on the knob are that important (I tend to look at the alignment jig when using them, not the knob), and the hole on the end, I found an earlier post and followed the recommendation of using a magnet on the end (hand bumps it first).
Horizontal support
At some point I might upgrade my jig to two knobs on the horizontal support, by ordering the kit for a bench grinder (rough shaping of tools), but I haven't found a need for either yet.

The TT50 stone grader is the only thing I would say jump on for sure.

[Ken S]

I agree with SADW about prioritizing the diamond dresser. Having an untrue wheel is a real handicap.

sharptoolsusa.com has some interesting blog posts which pertain to your present situation. Look under "Jeff's blog". Jeff is Jeff Farris, founder of this forum and the real deal Tormek Grand Master. Two of the blog posts discuss improvements in the Tormek, including the evolution of the universal support. The site also has a pdf on using the older square edge jig.

Herman's homemade threading of his universal support is quite clever. However, it is not quite the same as the present product. The newest universal support uses an Acme thread.Acme threads have a flat area on top for heavy duty use. Standard V threads are more prone to damage. Jeff notes this. Herman has not mentioned it, so I assume it has not been a problem for him.

If your budget is tight, I would do the diamond dresser. The older universal support, horizontal clamps and square edge jigs work as well now as when they were new. Working well just became working better with the improvements. Just add a little extra care and you will be fine. I would give priority to acquiring and using a small square to check your work. I would add that to the essential list.

By the way, the sharptoolsusa.com is the orininal home base for Jeff's Tormek you tubes. They are head and shoulders the best learning aids I have found.

Keep on posting.
Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Acme threads have a flat area on top for heavy duty use. Standard V threads are more prone to damage. Jeff notes this. Herman has not mentioned it, so I assume it has not been a problem for him.

I'm sure the Tormek Universal Support with its Acme threads are superior to my homemade version. What I did was run a file over the surface to flatten down the ridges a bit. I also flattened the side that makes contact with the set screw.

[Elden]

I realize this post is a month old, but like Herman I threaded the old USB. So far there has been no thread damage problems. If one does not over tighten the set screw and protects the USB from impacts, it should last quite well. Eventually the threads may become damaged by the set screw, however it should be easy to put a flat area on that side of the USB as Herman did to his. Chase the threads after doing that or simply chase the threads without doing the flat area.
A flat washer welded to the nut (one could use JB Weld or a equivalent product) with fine grooves ground into it makes indexing marks. If so desired, the grooves can be darkened with a Sharpie and numbers added.

[Herman Trivilino]

I cemented the nut into the cap of a used juice bottle using automobile repair bondo. It has a diameter of about 4 cm, so it's really easy to turn. In fact, it will spin on its own given a start.

[arnman]

I ended up buying a new USB.  I am glad I did.  I like the threads and the microadjust that was included.  But it also gives me another USB to set up with my grinder, or maybe keep in place for the honing wheel.

I might thread the older USB at some point in the future.

I have really come to appreciate the speed and results I have been getting with the Tormek.  All my chisels, plane irons, and kitchen knives are sharp!

[Ken S]

Herman and Elden are both good examples of what I would call "Popular Mechanics Home Workshop Craftsmen". That is not an honor I confer lightly. Both are clever, innovative, and not afraid to try things.

Steve, if you are one of that fraternity, and have access to a thread die and die holder, then by all means, go for it. However, if you do not have the threading tools, it is no shame to either use your support bar as is or purchase a new model. The original is as solid a tool as when it was  new on the market. Thousands are in regular use. The new model is just improved. You will be successful with either.

We all make do in certain areas and splurge in other ways. I am just a Tormek junkie who makes do in other areas.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Your local hardware store may be able to thread the shaft for you. Perhaps even at no charge. I used a 12 mm die, but I believe Elden used half-inch with success.

[Elden]

Herman, you are correct. I did use a 1/2" x 20 pitch (fine thread) die. That translates to the treads being a little looser than the 12 mm would be as the threads wouldn't be as fully formed due to the diameter of the USB leg. There is plenty of tread capacity there for low pressure being applied. It meant I didn't have to apply as much pressure to cut the threads.