1/4" Bevel Edge Chisels

[Rob]

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has tried sharpening in this configuration and what their results are, compared to the normal method.

There are two primary differences between grinding with wheel towards you versus away.  Aggressiveness of cut and direction edge will tend to move.  Towards you the wheel pushes the edge into the stone giving a more aggressive cut that's easier to control.  Away from you gives a lighter cut as the wheel is constantly pushing the edge away from the grinding surface.

So general rule of thumb is if you want a delicate/fine grind go with wheel away (also no risk of edge dig-ins).  If you want to remove a lot of steel go with wheel towards.

[Ken S]

Well stated, Rob.  In this case, I would settle (temporarily) for a less aggressive cut which works. We still don't know the results of the "autopsy", but at least Kenny is in the land of sharp blades. We will all be curious to learn "the rest of the story".

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I find peering over the machine a bit uncomfortable as well.

The Tormek works better when placed on a surface that is much lower than the typical bench top.  We normally place kitchen counter tops at a height of 36 inches, for example, but the Tormek does better on a bench that's at a height of only 30 inches. 

[Rob]

Well stated, Rob.  In this case, I would settle (temporarily) for a less aggressive cut which works. We still don't know the results of the "autopsy", but at least Kenny is in the land of sharp blades. We will all be curious to learn "the rest of the story".

Ken

Agreed.  Until the problem is understood best off remaining in the position that's delivering for Kenny.

[kennyk]

Just wanted to add that I'm not finding much performance difference between the two configurations.  If anything the less aggressive cut is more suitable for the blades that I'm working on, purely because my view is that less aggressive = more controllable grind. or perhaps more correctable early on in the grinding process.

Certainly the burr on the horizontal grind is finer, but I can transform a bevel from the 'curve edged, multi beveled mess' to a nice straight single bevel in a couple of minutes for most blades.   

The plane blades I've been working on have a big curve in them, and it is also assymmetrical and slightly s-shaped to the point that I've managed to get a straight enough new bevel that still has one lopsided corner at the back of the bevel.   I could eliminate it but it would involve taking another couple of mm off the entire blade, which obviously is too time consuming.

I've yet to perfect the technique to give me a blade straight enough that I'd be 100% confident to use it in a No 7 Plane  for joining a pair of spruce wedges for a carved-top instrument using a rub joint, but I'm getting closer.  At the moment speed is the essence. 

I'm certainly finding that the SVS-32 has been useful for a number of chisels which are getting a bit stubby for the SE-76.   To my mind it probably should be part of the standard kit.  Actually on that thought, I think the standard kit should also include a complimentary 2" engineer's square and a Sharpie;  They're an essential part of the learning curve and the whole sharpening process in my view.

[Rob]

They'll never make it into the kit. Cost too much.

[kennyk]

They'll never make it into the kit. Cost too much.

if they ditched the gimmicky band-aids... 

[Ken S]

I agree about the bandaids.

By the way, whatever happened with the tested and known good unit you were supposed to receive, Kenny?  Do we know anything more about the original problem?

Ken

[kennyk]

I'm waiting for delivery of a known good machine. I'm hoping it will arrive later this week.
As soon as I have any updates I will pass on the information. 

I'm still suspecting an issue with the placement of one of the sleeves as the most likely culprit, given that I can get a straight bevel in reverse configuration.
Any time I've had a squint bevel with my reverse config in the last 100 blades, when I've re-checked the blade against the '76 with a square, that has caused the skew, even if it's out by a fraction, so it leaves two possibilities:

1. BOTH SE-76 have the same fault with the registration edge being out of square. (which I'm not using as a reference because the jig is upside down)
or
2.  one of the sleeves is not on the same plane as the other, and out of alignment with respect to the wheel shaft.   (and I'm not using the sleeves when the USB is on the front )

I am reminded of a curious factoid about the Martin Guitar Company which is of potential relevance here.  Back in the 70s it was discovered that the jig that the staff were using to measure for the precise location of the guitar bridge had worn to such an extent that the bridge was being put too far forward, causing all the guitars being manufactured to play out of tune.  When the distance was measured, it became clear what had happened.   I'm not saying that this has happened here, but these things can, and do, happen.


Anyway, I'm pleased to report  that I have a small pile of 'spare' plane blades waiting for the known good unit to turn up, and the rest of my sharpening workload is over.  I'm still disappointed that I didn't manage to get them all completed before the start of term, but at least they're all sharp now.  I've had a very positive comment from one of the teaching staff about the 'luxury' of sharp tools.  It's the plane blades that seem to have made the biggest impression.

[Herman Trivilino]

I can't speak for the accomplished woodworker, but to me the hand plane is a totally different tool when it has a sharp blade.  Growing up my dad always had a few hand planes lying about.  I had seen him use them, but I could never get them to work for me.  Years later I acquired those very same hand planes and saw what bad shape the irons were in.  They had been sharpened over the decades at ever steeper micro bevels, and had never been properly sharpened in their lives.  I soon had them in good shape and was amazed at how easy it was to shave wood with them.

I'm sure yours will serve your students well, and will be a joy to use for both the teacher and the learner.

[Ken S]

Kenny and Stig: Updates?

[kennyk]

I'm hoping to have received another machine for testing by the end of the week. with any luck I should have some results fairly soon.

[kennyk]

Just another quickish update.

I received a second machine towards the end of last week.  Immediately I was able to sharpen a blade square using the SE-76 as directed by the videos, so it would appear that there is something misaligned on my original machine.  I hope to get the original sent back tomorrow for inspection.

Further comments regarding 'square'.  On this new machine it is still possible to introduce a skew by applying pressure to one side, whereas it was impossble to correct a skew by applying pressure on the other machine.
Also I have learned to ensure that the reference edge is always the one in the registration edge of the SE-76 as the sides of a blade are not always 100% parallel!

Additionally, I'm struggling a bit with getting a completely straight edge; I'm still getting a very slight convex curve, which I'm putting down to technique, although I'm not sure how to correct it at the moment. 

Regarding narrow chisels of 1/4" or less, it still seems that the SE-76 is not very successful. I suspect that when it was designed it wasn't designed with these in mind.    My solutions are to use the SVS-32 (particularly for 3mm / 1/8" chisels) or to try to manually fit the chisel in the middle of the jig and check with an engineers' square.   It's that channel down the registration edge that is causing the chisel to twist in the jig, and I firmly believe that this issue needs to be addressed by Tormek in terms of modification, or at the very least recommending the SE-76 not be used for narrow chisels.   It can be done but to be brutally honest I spend twice as long re-grinding the 1/4 chisels to correct the skew from it twisting in the jig the first time as I do sharpening and honing a chisel if I get it bang on the first time.

[Rob]

good to hear you weren't going nuts though eh Kenny?  Ie it never was operator error so I imagine that must make you feel somewhat human again :-)

With the smaller chisels, you really don't need the jig.  I recommend you try flipping the usb mount position to wheel moving away from you. Mount the Torlok toolrest adjusted to the bevel angle you desire and then just push the narrow chisel (upside down of course) up against the wheel freehand.  Start with an aggressive cut and refine as you remove the steel from the bevel.  You'll need to apply firm finger pressure on the back of the blade close to the wheel to prevent it from popping up with the natural upward force of the wheel but its easily do-able.

Also to prevent the onset of madness, strike a square line with a sharpie on the back so you have a visual reference for square as you grind.  No jig necessary, fast setup.  You'll be quickly surprised how easy freehanding is once you mentally release yourself from the idea that if its not jigged its not "proper".  The human eye is also remarkably accurate at eyeballing square and level in general too so learn to trust it.

[Herman Trivilino]

I received a second machine towards the end of last week.  Immediately I was able to sharpen a blade square using the SE-76 as directed by the videos, so it would appear that there is something misaligned on my original machine.

That's good news! I think Ken S identified the problem.

Imagine a line of infinite length passing through the axis of the grindstone, and another passing through the horizontal portion of the Universal Support.  My bet is that these two lines are not parallel, and moreover they never intersect. They are skew lines. The origin of this misalignment is the way the Universal Support mounts in the frame of your T-7.

If I'm right, the problem cannot be corrected by truing the grindstone, which is consistent with your experience.