Great article on honing / stropping

[Jeff Farris]

While I had a particularly high motivation (staying in business) in the first days of my Tormek experience, I would say that within 20 or 30 tools I felt pretty confident that I could make the honing wheel do anything I wanted it to do.

I also had two excellent instructors in Geoff Brown and Torgny Jansson.

[mike40]

One point made in the Beach article that nobody has mentioned here was that while a finer paste like Tormek's does a better job, it also takes a lot longer to do it. That makes me wonder if those having honing problems with the Tormek wheel aren't just having problems with technique, but maybe they are not using enough time to get the job done properly. I saw a sharpening video today where the guy said he has switched from Tormek's paste to Lee Valley's green crayon. It seems obvious to me after having read the article that he did that because he gets a faster (if not as good) result from the green stuff, and he probably has to do it more often too.

[Ken S]

Jeff, your answer gave me a good laugh.  Isn't it amazing what a great motivator staying afloat can be!  In addition to the laugh, your answer also has the ring of truth from experience.

By the way, I would rank studying with Torgny Jansson as more useful than the PhD from Yale in the Tormek field.  I don't recognize the name Geoff Brown.  Please help fill this gap in my knowledge.

Mike, you make a good point about speed.  In a really busy sharpening session I might have as many as three chisels to sharpen and maybe a plane or two.  I can't spend all day!!!

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

If you polish a surface with 0.5 µm grit, then it's not going to get smoother by applying a 1, 2, or 3 µm grit honing compound.

If, on the other hand, you are trying to put a tooth on an edge, you do want the scratches.

That's what I take from that article and this discussion.

So, for example, on a plane iron you may want that smooth edge so you wouldn't hone after polishing with 0.5 µm grit.  But on a kitchen knife you may want that tooth on your edge to help you slice through those ripe tomatoes, so in that case honing may be advisable.  (But in that case polishing to 0.5 µm is a waste of time, effort, and resources.

I think it all depends on your standards.  For most of us, I would venture to say that the Tormek system is a good compromise between getting that perfect polished edge and being able to quickly sharpen a tool and get back to work.

For example, I can spend a while getting a razor sharp edge on a pocket knife.  It'll shave hair even though I won't be using it to shave.  And after it's been in my pocket a few days and I've used to open packages or sharpen a pencil, it no lnger has that razor sharp edge.  And it doesn't need it!

[Jeff Farris]

... I don't recognize the name Geoff Brown.  Please help fill this gap in my knowledge....
Ken

Geoff Brown owned the UK company which distributed Tormek for many, many years. He also represented Tormek as sales manager for the English speaking world. He still has some capacity with them, though I'm not sure what his official title is now. He was the person who first approached me about selling Tormek in 1992.

[Ken S]

Interesting.  Thanks, Jeff.

Through all the discussion of honing compounds, the concept of the particles breaking down is mentioned, but doesn't seem to have received the attention I believe it should have.

If we start with larger particles, presumably, they will cut more rapidly at first.  This would leave larger scratches if the process was halted prematurely.  However, as the particles break down, the scratch pattern should become more refined, just as using progressively finer stones.

I was looking for evidence to document this and found a good source:  "Dursol is the original metal polish formula of the company by the same name, nearly unchanged for decades. It has slightly coarser abrasives than PA-70, but also contains a blend of sizes (just like PA-70), so that as the coarse grains break down, the smaller grains take over."   (source, Jeff's blog on the sharptoolsusa website)

My original tube of Tormek compound is almost gone.  I will reserve my opinion until I have gone through another tube or two.  With diligent technique, by that time I should have eliminated operator error as a variable.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

At 40X magnification you can see that the scratch pattern left by the grindstone remains after honing.  Honing polishes the flat spots between the scratches and creates that "mirror finish".

[mike40]

A good observation Herman. It seems that the stropping produces a  mirror finish just at the very tip. I was skeptical about the finish left by the stone wheel after seeing the scratched surface on the bevels, but the stropping did produce the fine cutting results I was hoping for if not the totally obvious mirror finish. One thing I am still a little in doubt about is the grit of the stone  right out of the Tormek box. I assume it is 1,000 grit  judging from the results I got, but I'm not 100% certain. I haven't graded the stone to 220 yet as my hand sharpened bevels didn't need it before using the Tormek.

[Jeff Farris]

Mike,

The stone is made from 220 grit grains. The 1000 grit finish is an artificial surface produced by abrading the stone with the smooth side of the stone grader.

What isn't often explained is that there is a significant difference between a 220 grit surface that is loaded with dross and not cutting efficiently and a graded 1000 grit finish.

A stone that isn't cleaned with the grader won't remove a lot of material, similar to the graded surface, but what scratches it makes will be irregular (on a microscopic level). The 1000 grit graded finish is uniform in grain size and sharp, so it cuts the steel, rather than just rubbing it.

Bottom line is, I rarely if ever start sharpening something without using one side of the grader or the other. I want to condition the stone to do what I want it to do.

Even on chisels that are in relatively good shape, I spend a few moments using the 220 grit. This establishes a complete bevel at the jig setting. Then when I grade the stone to 1000, the fit between the grindstone and the tool is absolutely precise.

That means that the second step will take less than a minute, and then it's off to the honing wheel to produce a mirror finish on both sides of the chisel.

[mike40]

Thank much for those good tips Jeff.

[Ken S]

These are interesting posts.  I have been a member of this forum since mid 2009, and probably read the new posts as much an anyone.  While it is true that many of the questions posted seem to be repeated with each new crop of members (That's not a bad thing, keep posting!), recent posts seem to be adding a lot of valuable information.

I believe the leather honing wheel is one of the most underutilized and misunderstood parts of the Tormek.  These posts are narrowing that knowledge gap.

I don't remember reading about shaping a radius on the inside of the wheel.  That's clever!  Jeff, is this a recent idea or long established?  I would be interested in learning more about how the idea originated.  Also, how much of a radius?

Herman, you have probably been on this forum for a long time.  Do you remember some of this information being discussed before?

Let's all keep up the good work!

Ken

[Rob]

Jeff has posted the side of the wheel trick before....and since Christmas too because I remembered it when he posted it again just recently.

[Jeff Farris]

Ken,

I've done that for many, many years. I don't have a specific radius that I use, just "enough". It starts interfering with straight edges if you get carried away.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

Good tip.  I will add it to my mental Tormek book.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Ken, I don't remember ever reading about that rounding-over the edge of the grindstone trick.

Apparently it was posted as others remember it.  But I don't.  Probably because I didn't think I'd ever have a need for it.

But it's a tip I'll keep in mind now, as I can see how it could be useful.

Participation in this forum has led to wonderful changes in the way I think about the sharpening of steel edges.