Stone honing

[Mike Fairleigh]

Well, after that description, bologna doesn't sound so bad.  Or even baloney.

[tedn1]

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[tedn1]

So, what we're looking for is the cracks of light shining through. I am using a machinist square which is perfectly square. You can see the bar that is supposed to be square is not square, therefore, when I hone, it makes the wheel not square, and then the blade is not square.

Sorry, youll notice that I switched blades halfway through. I did it on two different blades, and both came out the same. The rust does not effect the blade on the last pic, because I took off the rust by rubbing the edge of the blade on fine sand paper on a piece of granite. This did not distort the original angle.

Also notice that the angle of light shining through on the bar, is the same as on the wheel, and is the same as on the blade. This distorted angle follows through consistently it seems like.

[Mike Fairleigh]

Glad you got the pics posted.  It's a little hard to tell whether the bar is really not straight, BUT even if it's off a bit, the wheel surface should match it after a pass with the truing tool.  And once that's done, the blade jig should run exactly parallel to the wheel surface, even if the wheel surface isn't exactly 90* to the side of the wheel.

There's one more variable: how certain are you that the blade is exactly square in the SE-76 jig?  It only takes a hair of crooked-ness along the edge of the blade to make it not sit square in the jig - and you'll end up with the results you're seeing.

Here's a crummy picture of what I mean.  This is me holding the blade of my square along the long edge of a chisel.  See that tiny sliver of light?  That's all it takes for the chisel to be out-of-square in the SE-76, if I were to just put it up against the registration edge of the jig.  For this reason, I often have to tweak the position of the tool in the SE-76 in order to achieve squareness at the cutting edge.




A relevant question would be, how much precision is needed in the squareness of the edge?  That depends on the tool.  With some chisels, the amount of OOS (out-of-squareness) wouldn't make a whit of difference.  With other chisels it might.  With plane irons from Stanley style planes (such as the ones you show in your pictures), that miniscule amount of OOS should be easily compensated for by use of the lateral adjuster lever.  Unless I'm missing something, which wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[Ken S]

I need VERY PRECISE sharpening for my plane blades, so that I can plane curly maple. And when I say precise, I mean PRECISE. They need to be sharper than a razor, perfectly flat, and the angle of the blade needs to be square.

i am wondering what you are planing which requires such precision.  Also, are you using a jointer plane, a smoother, or another plane for this work.?

A jointer is often sharpened with some camber (rounding) in the edge to prevent "plane tracks" (having the edges of the blade dig into the wood).  A smoother usually has a very slight amount of camber (perhaps .001") for the same reason.

Rob makes a good point about the lateral adjustment on planes.  Even Lie-Nielsen builds them into the bench planes.  I have an old (1891) Stanley jack plane with a broken frog.  A small hammer and gentle tapping helps square up the blade quite nicely.

If you want a really keen polished edge, by that I mean 8000 grit or beyond, you should use something else for the last stage(s).  The Tormek will do the harder work quickly and efficiently.  For the ultimate edge, I would finish it off with my Norton 8000 waterstone.  You can go further than that if you feel the need.

I have not worked with curly maple.  Do you plane it with the standard 45 degree frog?  You might benefit from a higher frog (if you are using lie-Nielsen planes) or a higher bevel angle blade in a low angle plane.  (That sounds contradictory, but it works.)  Or, if you are using old Stanley planes like most of us, do a google search "double bevel sharpening brian burns"  Brian's well done book was recently mentioned on the forum.  I have exchanged several emails with him. He's a nice guy and has worked out quite a good system of adapting conventional plane blades to higher angles using a double bevel.

Do post some more information about your work.

Ken

[tedn1]

Hi KSMike and Ken,

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to post back and help me with this problem.

To answer KSMike, I think the bar is bent sloping downwards. So the part where it's held by the Tormek is high, and the part where it ends, is low. I understand what you mean by the bar truing the stone exactly, even if there's a slope to it. Although, I wonder, what if the slope isn't exactly straight? What if it starts high, goes low, and then comes up high again? Not sure if that would cause a problem.

Concerning the jig, I was wondering about that myself, actually. The problem with the jig is that I have to trust the the edge of the jig is at a perfect right angle, because the way that it works is that you just push the blade up against the wall of the jig, and that's that. There's no adjustment for the jig wall or anything, So what you've got, is what you got. I make sure that it is snug up against the wall, but that's really all I can do. I mean, honestly, the problem could be with the jig itself. Maybe the wall is not straight.

The picture that you post is very good. Thanks for posting it. If I was acheiving results like this, it would not be a problem at all for me. It looks like you're high on the side and low in the middle. I could true that up with a couple swipes on the Japanese water stone and have a perfect blade edge, no problem. I don't know how you are acheiving that edge on this machine. Mine doesn't work like that.

To answer Ken, I am planing the most difficult and most challenging thing that one could plane (as far as I know of at least), which is violin ribs. They are extremely difficult to plane because the blade likes to bite into the flames of the maple and take out huge chunks. If everything is not exactly precise, your work will be ruined.

Yes, I agree with lateral adjustments. I definitely adjust it laterally with a small hammer. However, with the precise nature of the work that I am doing, it's only acceptable to adjust the plane a fraction of a hair, because the plane blade needs to be fully supported by the mouth. If it is not, it will bite into the flames. If I was planing some other type of wood, I would be made in the shade. I can plane poplar all day with a sub-par plane, but ribs are a different animal.

So I'm not sure what I will need to do. May have to sell it, which would be unfortunate, because I probably will only get half of my original investment back. Need to think it through.

But thanks for your responses. I really appreciate the help on this forum!!

[Herman Trivilino]

Have you ever had a hot dog, Rob?  It's pretty much the same processed meat that's in baloney.

It's the simplest sandwich to make because it comes sliced and ready to go.  Most kids love them with a little mustard and cheese.

[Jeff Farris]

Ted,

Let's break things down a little. First, don't worry about "square" on the Universal Support. It isn't important (yet). First thing that concerns me is that if I am seeing your photo correctly, it looks like the Universal Support isn't straight...and now that would present problems.

Check the straightness of the bar, without concern for whether it is square to the legs, and post back here what you find. Also, what country are you in? If it isn't straight, it should be replaced under warranty. The process differs with your country, but I can point you in the right direction in most cases.

[Rob]

Have you ever had a hot dog, Rob?  It's pretty much the same processed meat that's in baloney.

It's the simplest sandwich to make because it comes sliced and ready to go.  Most kids love them with a little mustard and cheese.

A flat hot dog...fantastic...I love America :-)