T-7 vs T-3

[Gtravis]

I may have missed this question in my search.  Been away from woodworking for years, and what I learned came from watching Norm on TV. I am wanting to get into hand tools more and understand that sharpness is critical.
I'm wondering just how much better the T-7 is over the T-3.  Are they both made in Sweden? I don't mind paying for superior performance/quality.
Seeing as this is a hobby and home maintenance and not a profession, is the T-7 really too much of a machine for my needs? However, I do not want to end up getting too little of a machine.
Thanks,
Trav

[Rob]

The T7 is considerably superior for a couple of reasons...the size of the components/wheel etc make everything easier.  The motor is rated for continuous use and is bullet proof. 

The range of jigs is biggest for the T7 because it's the flagship product.  Sales of the T3 are way lower than the T7 and it's generally regarded as a bit of a toy if I'm being totally honest.

[Ken S]

Welcome, Trav.  Good question.

Make sure when you compare the prices of the T7 and T3 that you compare apples to apples. The T7 includes the diamond dresser and the stone grader.  The T3 does not.  Both are really essential.  So, when you compare prices, add in the cost of the accessories not included with the T3.

I have only used the T7, so I can not speak from experience about the T3.  My gut feeling is that if there were no T7, people would be content with the T3.  Most of us, myself included could certainly get by with the lighter duty motor.  I haven't read about the T3's plastic housing breaking.

The smaller size and weight might actually be nice in a small shop.

I do prefer the larger wheel.  Most of my life I have used flat bevels sharpened by hand with oil or water stones.  The larger diameter wheel will give a flatter bevel.  This may be just a personal preference without scientific support, but it's how I feel.

My gut feeling would be to lean toward the T7.  Adding the diamond dresser and stone grader to the T3 diminishes the cost advantage.  I have no doubt that either the T3 or T7 would serve you for the rest of your life.  I have not read any complaints about the T7 being too much tool. I would err on the side of the T7.

If I had to choose between a T3 now or saving for a while for the T7, I would keep using my sharpening stones until I had saved the difference.  As a woodworker, I would not wait until I could buy all the accessories.  The basic unit will keep your planes and chisels going nicely.

Keep asking questions, and keep us posted.

Ken     

[Herman Trivilino]

I have only used the T7, so I can not speak from experience about the T3.  My gut feeling is that if there were no T7, people would be content with the T3.  Most of us, myself included could certainly get by with the lighter duty motor.  I haven't read about the T3's plastic housing breaking.

I, too, have used only the T7.  But I do not think I'd be happy with the T3.  I consider it to be a marketing ploy. 

It's a common marketing strategy to provide an inferior product at just over half the price of the featured item.  Shoppers feel better about paying more for a better product, or something like that.  All we know is that it works because people are more likely to buy an item when it's placed next to an inferior item at a lower price. 

And there has to be an inferior product to have a better product.  Sort of like the philosophical concept  that you can't have a thing without simultaneously having its opposite.  It's a Zen thing. 

[Gtravis]

Thanks to all for your insights. I'll continue to use stones until I can afford the T-7 and not get too much grief from the Spousal Unit. 
I bought some "MARPLES" chisels and was truly disappointed to discover just how far off the bevels are when I used a Veritas guide. I spent over an hour on one chisel using a DMT Extra Coarse stone to get the proper angle. My old hand was killing me by the time that I finally got the bevel down to the point that the burr I created on the bevel side after I worked on the flat side was finally removed.

Perhaps I should get their extra extra coarse stone until a T-7 finally finds its way to my house.

[Mike Fairleigh]

A good, and comparatively cheap alternative in the mean time (and a good thing to have on hand in any case) is a granite stone and roll of 3M Stikit 80 grit paper.  You'll have new bevels in no time flat.  Woodcraft sells the stones for about $35, sometimes less on sale.  The 3M rolls are expensive for what they are, but a roll lasts a long time.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-2599-Stikit-Paper-Sheet/dp/B000PESIXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370866629&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+gold+stikit+80

http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=granite

(That 6x18" plate is a bit more but would be a great choice if Stikit paper is all it will be used for.)

[Gtravis]

Thank you again.

[Ken S]

Trav,

If I had a new set of chisels whose bevels did not match the "standard" bevel angle, and had to work on them with just hand stones or whatever I happened to have on hand> I would be tempted to sharpen them with whatever angle was already on the bevel.  Sharp within a reasonable range of bevel angles is still sharp.  I would hold off until I had a Tormek before attempting major surgery.

I will leave questions of quality and zen ness to my distinguished forum colleagues.

I think all sharpening tools fall into a certain range from very rough metal shaping to ultra polishing.  No one tool can do everything.  My trusty Norton 3X 46 grit wheel on the dry grinder will never leave a polished edge.  Nor will I ever live long enough to sharpen a badly nicked edge with an ultra hard Arkansas stone.

I see the Tormek falling into the range of occasional shaping, quite good at sharpening, and doing a fair job with polishing.  All depend on the skill of the operator.  I bought my Tormek after a grueling session of preparing a new set of Blue Chip (Marples) chisels for a hand dovetailing class.  (Sound familiar?)  My hands ached.

I have found the Tormek considerably lessens the stress on my hands.  In this regard, the full duty motor of the T7 extends the range of the Tormek further into the coarse side than the 50% duty motor of the T3.  If someone is careful and patient, this may never become a problem.  However, who knows when one might purchase a set of chisels and wish to change the bevel angles on them.

(I have a set of Marples blue Chip firmer chisels, no side bevels, I am thinking of converting to special purpose 75 degree bevel.  See Leonard Lee's book to explain this.  That's definitely not a hand stone project!)

I looked online to other forums hoping to fine more about the T3.  The posters all seemed to be T7 users.  That's not surprising, as the T3 is a new version in the US.  In the process, I discovered that Advanced Machinery now sells the T3 with the diamond dresser and stone grader for $489.  If you should see a T3 for noticeably less than that, beware.  It may not have these two essential parts.  I consider them parts rather than accessories.  That makes only $150 difference between the two.  That doesn't seem like much a spread to me for a lifetime tool.

I think you are wise to wait and save.  In the meantime, a piece of 1/4" plate glass somewhere around 9x12" and some wet or dry sandpaper will suffice for very little money.  Yes, I know the glass might break.  A good safety step up would be shatterproof glass like Lee Valley sells.  Plan B would be a flat piece of MDF or plywood and a small tube of diamond paste.  (Lee Valley sells this, also.)

The T7 wil be worth the wait.

Ken

[jeffs55]

You can never make a little thing bigger, only one thing comes to mind on that but is another subject entirely. What I mean is that once I had the need to buy a gun safe and I bought the biggest that I could afford. I do not mean that literally as that might cause you to buy the T3 and that is a mistake. Save for what you cannot afford right now. You can always put less in a big thing but not more in a little thing. Even if you have to wait and save, then wait and save and get the T7. Also, keep and eye on eBarf, they sometimes have deals.

[Gtravis]

Will do. Many thanks to all.