New SVM-00 Small Knife Jig

[Herman Trivilino]

Another email message arrived today from Advanced Machinery/Sharp Tools USA announcing the new SVM-00 small knife jig with a release date of April 1 (no foolin').

http://www.advmachinery.com/p-1107-tormek-small-knife-holder.aspx

It appears there is no adjustment of the Guide Bar to place it in the same plane as the knife blade.  That's a pity as it's means you'll have trouble getting the bevel angle the same on both sides of a pocket knife blade unless the blade happens to be centered in the handle.

The other thing I noticed is that the operators hand is not on the knife blade itself, but on the Guide Bar, the same position it would be in when sharpening with just the SVM-45.

[Elden]

I posed this question to Kurt Johansson:

Kurt,
I'm curious. Doesn't the angle setting for the SVM-00 have to be changed from one side of the knife blade to the other side, if the blade is not centered in regard to the handle? For example: a multiple bladed folding pocket knife.

His reply:

Hello Elden.
As I am never using any pocket knifes I have not tought about a problem when sharpening.
Luckely I found an old pocket knife with offset blade i one of my kitchen drawers so I took it out to my workshop and got started.
What I did was as follows, first I messured the offset of the blade which was 5mm on the right side and 9 mm on the left, difference 4 mm. I cut a slice of 4mm plywood as an inlay in the jig
on the right side of the knife and clamped the knife in the jig, setting the blade in the correct position. After that I used a black marker on both sides of the blade and by sliding the knife across the grindstone  before turning  the grinder on I could controll the setting of the knife in the jig. The first setting was not exact so I had to do some minor adjustments before everything was satisfactory.
I then graded the grindstone using the finer side of the stone grader and went on sharpening.
Everything worked out ok.
Please note that there is a learning curve.
Kurt Johansson

I told him that I would post his response here in the forum.
Interesting way to tackle the problem. Hadn't thought of that way.

[Ken S]

Good thought, well expressed!  Thanks to you both.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

It's nice to know for sure that things like that have to be done with the SVM-00.

I don't see myself getting one, but you never know.

[jeffs55]

I do not see any reason to buy this jig if you have to "rig" it to work with knives that it is supposed to be designed to sharpen. It has the same drawbacks as the other knife jigs regarding centering of the blade and its related grinding pattern on the edge. I wonder who is going to be able to cut 4mm spacers or 4.3mm or 4.2 etc to get the perfect setting? Can you say, "this is not the answer"?

[Rob]

This story isn't over yet.  The notion that you have to cut custom shims to modify a factory jig to fit offset pocket knives is in my view not a satisfactory solution.  Some day, either here or at Tormek AB or even dare I say, Record power and/or jet, someone will produce an adjustable jig with some form of indexing so you can centre an offset blade to grind both bevels equally

It's really not rocket science and if they can produce a very expensive drill bit jig that will have incredibly limited market appeal, I feel certain there is a business case to justify a jig for all those millions of pocket knives out there.

To illustrate my point. Straw poll on this site (a community of special interest without question):

How many people own the drill bit jig? (I know Ken does, maybe one other)
How many people own the original short knife jig Svm-45? (Most of us I would guess)

The market potential for a decent solution to varied design for small knives is really quite big in my view!

[Black Mamba]

I buy Rob's position on this one. The " solution " that Johansson offered up seems needlessly complicated ....certainly time consumptive....and not a really good approach to the issue. The Tormek line of knife jigs, in general, have some flaws that inhibit their usefulness. Before the bullets start flying, I want to acknowledge that Jeff ( and many others ) have worked wonders using these jigs. But those with real mechanical minds must certainly be able to come up with better designs. I applaud Ionut and Herman for their contributions in this matter. The ultimate answer to a better system may well evolve around their ideas.

BTW...Herman, I'm a buyer for your jig if you take it to a marketable state.

Tom

[Herman Trivilino]

I do not see any reason to buy this jig if you have to "rig" it to work with knives that it is supposed to be designed to sharpen. It has the same drawbacks as the other knife jigs regarding centering of the blade and its related grinding pattern on the edge."

Actually, the SVM-45 does not have the same drawback as the SVM-00.  In the case of the SVM-00 it's much worse.

[Rob]

That's my point Ken.....this group is entirely capable of compensating for the drawbacks in the factory jig by making accurate shims and knowing how to use them. Ill bet half the Tormek owners don't know what the word "shim" means!

Even if they do, they resent having to go to the trouble of making one when they want to sharpen and get back to work.  They don't want to explore their inner machinist, they want to finish building the project their blunt tool thwarted them from in the first place.

It isn't a "macho" inner machinist (I should be ashamed of myself for not doing this issue), its about paying hard earned cash for a product that should be fit for purpose. Because the buyers purpose is to finish his project. If he wanted to be a machinist, he would apply for a job with Tormek R&D, then he could focus on that.  Now don't get me wrong, I hear you, I'm sure this whole special interest group does.....it's just that, your average punter doesn't have this much expertise.  Their "inner machinist" is an as yet unborn embryo who has just forked out thirty bucks on a piece of metal.....and it had better work :-)

Your perspective is of a man with literally decades of experience in solving problems of this nature, who is doubtless superb at it.  Johnny punter, is a baby, he needs help, he can't spell shim....what does he do....

[Herman Trivilino]

Ill bet half the Tormek owners don't know what the word "shim" means!

I would think that someone so keen to sharpen his tools that he shells out the rather large amount of cash for the Tormek would have had to shim lots of things in his experience.  I picture the Tormek as something only a craftsman would be using.  I could be wrong.

[Rob]

You're probably right Herman, I'm sure quite a few Tormek users understand the word shim. The thing is I was exaggerating to illustrate the point which is that I think users will be frustrated with a jig that denies the necessary adjustment to accurately sharpen an offset knife.

I think I've accidentally hit upon a bug bear of mine with this. My frustration at the idea of a factory made jig that isn't entirely fit for purpose needs to be explained....here goes.

Most machine tools need "fettling" when new to set them up properly before accurate use is possible. All woodworkers generally want this to be as little as possible so they can get on with their project. The rule of thumb seems to be the more expensive the tool, the more likely you can use it "out the box". Good example, Lie Nielsen planes.

Tormek is definitely in the premium price group of tools (like LN) and as such I have high expectations for their jigs. And most of the time I have to say they don't disappoint. But the short knife jig......

In the final analysis, I'm always trying to get back to the project and get away from tool setup. I seem to spend half my time in the shop fettling something instead of getting on with the job, this is all about that balance. If I spend a lot of hard earned, I'm hoping the balance is in favour of project time.  If I spend a little, I expect to invest in more fettling time.

[Elden]

How many woodworking knives are going to have an offset? Seems to me that the Tormek is set forth to be a tool for woodworkers, primarily. Yes it does knives and does them well with a learning curve. No, the knife jigs aren't perfect, but it is readily shown that superb edges have been achieved by the use of the Tormek.

The SVM-00 literature does not state that it can do all knives, there is no reference to the pocket knives that some of us carry. It may be that multiple bladed knives are not a common product there. The jig would handle a lot of 2 bladed pocket knives as the blades are located at opposite ends of the frame. Yes, some are located side by side and require tweaking.

Look at it this way. How many of us waited to buy a computer until we could get one with 8GB of memory and a 2TB hard drive? But you say this is different, you are talking electronics now. Is it really?
Most everyone reading this already has a Tormek. The SVM-00 costs approximately $35. Not bad. I don't imagine anyone here is still using that old Commodore 64 computer. How many computers have we had since then? Have we complained to the companies that made them that they weren't perfect? Care to figure up all your money spent on computer related products?

I would not be surprised that if we could know, Tormek is probably working on it.

Until then, we can still freehand sharpen. If we don't feel comfortable doing that, make and use our own version of the Ionut-Herman jig. Mark's tin can holder is a great idea as well.

Ok, off my soap box.

Has anyone presented the Ionut-Herman jig to Tormek or we assuming that they are going to find out here?

[Elden]

Better yet, someone put on your thinking cap and come up with a different jig that solves all knife sharpening problems!

[Jeff Farris]

If you don't want to shim, you can just do each side individually, resetting the Universal Support for the second side. Either solution makes this attachment useful for very small knives, whether fixed or folding, single blade or multi-blade. If you're successful with the SVM-45 for medium to large knives, you'll be successful with the SVM-00 for small knives, using exactly the same technique. Seems a clever solution to me.

[Rob]

Look guys don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at Tormek, don't forget that personally I freehand my small knives because I don't care about the aesthetics of slightly imperfect bevels as long as its sharp. I'm Tormeks greatest fan and have spent considerable amounts of money on their kit

I'm also objective.  It simply occurs to me that there is a very large volume of pen knives out there of the Swiss army style design ie with offset blades. Surely, its in the commercial interest of a manufacturer of water cooled grinding and sharpening equipment to crack the sharpening conundrum of those blade geometries in perhaps the same elegant way they devised the articulated bowl gouge jig, an absolutely masterful piece of engineering.

Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree and I'm over estimating the market, or people in it aren't interested in sharpening their pen knives.....like me ie they freehand them.