I'm really not getting the hang of honing

[mike40]

Robin, it might not be a great idea to use a secondary bevel on a chisel as it might be more difficult to hone a a secondary bevel on the leather wheel. I'm thinking that a secondary (micro) bevel is so small that there is little room for error and not much support while you are honing compared to using the whole bevel for support otherwise. I'm thinking the  same might hold true for plane blades too. Just a thought as I have almost no experience with my new Tormek yet.

[Rob]

I'm not going to comment on any other author's methods or writings. As far as using a Tormek goes, if you take the edge off with the honing wheel, you did something wrong. It's easy to do, but it's also easy to correct. You're bringing the angle too high. The solution is to not bring the angle too high. 

Think about it this way. there's no penalty whatsoever for having the angle too flat, so always err in that direction.  Start flat and carefully bring the angle up until the edge just gets to the leather. Kiss the edge, don't maul it.

That's precisely the problem Jeff.  I'm already (definitely) doing that and have been for some time in fact.  The fact that that procedure doesn't consistently yield the results you report is what causes my head scratching on this.

What it keeps coming back to (no disrespect intended) is something of a crisis of faith in the whole leather stropping method. Anyway, not to worry, it's not preventing me from doing anything I want with my tools so it's something of an academic debate really.  What attracts me to that Canadian chaps article is the credibility it conveys because he actually observes each edge with powerful optics after each test procedure.  There is no requirement for "faith" on the part of the reader...it's right there in the picture.  That's a pretty powerful argument.  I appreciate that's pitched against your many years selling Tormeks and the results you report.


I'm sure this debate will run and run....


Out of curiosity, don't suppose Tormek have any published research data (scanning electron microscopy images) on edges before and after stropping do they? That would be very interesting to see and would help inform the procedure specific to their capability.

 

[Jeff Farris]

http://tormek.com/media/268468/wet_or_dry_en.pdf

[Herman Trivilino]

At 40X magnification I can clearly see that the scratch pattern in the steel is refined when switching from coarse to fine graded grindstone.  Honing on the leather wheel shines up the flat spots between the scratches, but the scratches are all still there.

I think this is the purpose of the Japanese Waterstone (SJ).  It would likely fill in that gap bteween the SG grindstone and the honing wheel.

I think the purpose of the honing wheel is simply to remove the burr.  It can of course be used to polish surfaces, but that's a secondary purpose.

[mike40]

Interesting results on the tests. I'm looking forward to trying it out with my turning tools. Will a lighter finger pressure and more time on the stone create a smoother bevel and better base for the honing wheel?

[Ken S]

I found this while searching "Lion Trimmer". I think it is a very interesting topic, and hope today's readers will enjoy it.

Ken

[Rob]

I did read that entire thread in fact Ken and you're right it was really interesting.  I particularly liked the discussion about Lie Neilsen and Veritas.