origins, intent and present

[Herman Trivilino]

I see what you mean about the videos.  I think the videos should focus on the right way to do things, including warning about the potential wrong ways to not do things.

But in general this forum already serves as an environment that delves into potential problems and has the same potential to be viewed by potential customers as would a wiki.

[Rob]

The sad fact of the matter is, gentlemen, that delving into potential problems in an environment that would be viewed by potential customers is never, ever going to be a good idea. In a video, particularly an online video, you have about 3 minutes to get your point across, at the very best. If you start explaining things that might go wrong and what to do about them, attention would be lost. Even worse, those on the fence will fall the wrong way, because none of the other options have any potential downsides (according to their promotional material). It would be nice if potential customers would recognize that the manufacturer is trying to be honest and open, but it just doesn't work that way. I promise you, I'm speaking from first-hand experience.

Im not quite sure where you're positioning this comment Jeff?  Are you saying that the above means you dont support the idea we've all been banging on about ie have a wiki style top level group on this forum with co-operative edit rights aimed at new users?  Or are you just making general comments about good online video direction?

I have to ask because we've been batting this idea around while you were "off air" with computer woes. Dont know if youve read all he threads yet because theres been a ton of traffic while youve been away.  I think video has only just entered the fray...our basic premise was to jointly produce short, succinct and optimised "notes" to guide new users in the fundamentals with a Tormek.  We see the same set of questions repeated, particularly for new folks...and it seemed to make sense to point them at a document or series of documents that would help them.  Printable, one per jig, one for honing, one for grading etc etc.  Just cover all the basics.  Im not sure where that idea picked up the baggage of airing all the problems....it was pretty straightforward really...summarise helpful content for new folks...but allow it to be done in a collaborative way to share the burden and combine our knowledge and experience.  Sort of this forums purpose....but in miniature :-)

[Jeff Farris]

I fully support your efforts to consolidate the information on what can go wrong.  I was just trying to elaborate on why manufacturer videos (everyone's, not just Tormek) might gloss over potential problems.

[Rob]

Understood...but lets be clear...the goal we were discussing was to consolidate the information on what can go RIGHT primarily ie the best, the optimal path

The primary purpose to consolidate it so its accessible

[grepper]

Jeff, you can sort of see how the conversation grew...
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1534.0

[Jeff Farris]

Yeah, I can read on the tablet just fine, I just hate to write on it.

When you guys get off course, you'll hear from me. Until then, full steam ahead.

[grepper]

Ok.  Got it.

The question of to how to create and manage a consolidated user document presents some obstacles.

An FAQ page would require someone to accept submissions, reviewing, editing and posting and the like, because of author only modification limitations of post permissions.

The reason I mention that thread is because as far as I can see, that is where the idea of a user "wiki" originated, because of both the wiki format, and because of it's collaborative editing ability.

A true wiki of course, requires hosting and IT resources, which, lacking a benevolent benefactor, presents as a considerable challenge.

I moseyed around in the SMF manual.  It appears that membergroups and profiles can be configured to allow members with sufficient privileges to edit all posts within specific boards and categories. 

I'm sure this is not news to you considering that you hosted the forums on your PC, (wow!), but it dawned on me that this could be used as sort of a poor man's wiki.

This would obviously require even more of your time to set up, and you already do so much!

Is this anything you might be interested in?

Thanks,

Mark

[grepper]

I guess I should add that this is not a configure the forums and... Bob's your uncle!... kind of thing.  (Thanks Rob... Now I have to say that all the time!   For some unknown reason it's addictive).  There are all sorts of present and ongoing considerations, e.g., group membership, reviewing and editing, style standards and administration of group/member privileges and on, and on...

It's an interesting idea to toss around though.

[Ken S]

Jeff, I heard a journalism prof discussing laptops and tablets recently on NPR. (National Public Radio, for you Brits, similar to BBC)

Anyway, to paraphrase his comment in my native telephonese, he stated that the tablets are quite good at receiving, whereas, the laptop is better at transmitting.....

Ken

[Jeff Farris]

Ken,

That's exactly my position. "Creating" on a tablet is nearly impossible. Apple is the only one that can even run a dedicated word processing program that isn't "tied to the cloud". The tablet was my Christmas present to my wife. It's a Kindle Fire HD and she loves it. It saved my bacon the last couple weeks, but I am glad that a software upgrade is all it took to put my old laptop on life support. I know its days are numbered.

[Rhino]

I like to chime in here and say that Tormek is also the easiest sharpening solution I've used. And it is a whole lot easier than any manual method.  I don't want us scare off the newcomers.  The forum is extremely useful but a newcomer can get the system working without it also.

I bought the Tormek to save time and energy.  It is all in one place and it is a complete solution.  For example, unlike other systems, you don't have to worry about what to do when your flat stone is concave, how to reactivate the surface, how to align the blade.  This is assuming you got the diamond grader.  Also, for grinding, it is a lot faster than other manual methods and with the water element it is almost guaranteed not to ruin the temper of the steel. 

A lot of the other systems are fine but they are not made for hours and hours of grinding or minimal levels of reshaping a blade.  They remove metal even slower than a tormek.  Also, I like the concept of a big wheel in water. 

For everyday utility type sharpening, it works well enough.  For example, my chisels are very slightly off square if you use a square gauge on it and look at it microscopically.  It does not affect the type of carpentry I do.  My kitchen knives are sharp enough for everyday work - they slice through paper well enough for the camera.  This is not the ultimate test but it is good enough for me.  I want to sharpen them more, but that is just the hobby part of me talking.  They are perfectly sharp enough for a commercial kitchen and sharper than any knives in the knife kits of people going to cooking school.

So we are talking about a wiki (or a document) to make it better.  The Tormek is good as is and will get you where you want to go quickly after some practice.  The wiki is for people seeking perfection.  That's great.  I want to do it too.  But it is not like the system is so complicated that the average person can't get it to work without a wiki.

[Herman Trivilino]

So we are talking about a wiki (or a document) to make it better.  The Tormek is good as is and will get you where you want to go quickly after some practice.  The wiki is for people seeking perfection.  That's great.  I want to do it too.  But it is not like the system is so complicated that the average person can't get it to work without a wiki.

I agree with you, Rhino, that the Tormek is a great all round sharpening tool.  With practice you really can get those kitchen knives sharper than new.  And this same device can be used to sharpen a crusty old lawnmower blade.  No doubt it's versatile and relatively easy to use.

We know from experience here on the forum that some newbies have difficulty getting the hang of it.  And many practiced users, myself and others here included, can benefit greatly from those little tips and tricks that we share.

Yes, the Tormek works well enough, but it can also do other thngs that we might never be aware of if not for a forum like this.

[grepper]

Yup.  You can certainly open the box and have at it!  That's what I did.   Jeff's videos were very much the reason that I purchased the T-7.  So, at least I had some clue. 

But soon, I started to have questions.  And when I went to find the answers, all I could find was the most basic information.  The manual basically, and frustratingly to me, just described the jigs. But I wanted an operators manual, not a catalog of optional accessories.

For me at least, the privilege of having the advice of experienced users is invaluable.  I became a better user because of the friendly advice from folks in this forum, and in a much shorter time than by trial and error.  It has saved me from stupid things too!

In some ways it's self evident.  This forum has thousands of questions and very helpful replies and suggestions from skilled users with years of experience.  It's that experience and depth of knowledge that makes the difference!  A good example would be if I picked a violin.  I could do, well, "things" with it, but I would either quickly be killed, or others would flee.

Take for example all of the recent conversation about the stone grader!  Look at all the experience folks have shared about a square chunk of stone.

[Herman Trivilino]

Yup.  You can certainly open the box and have at it!  That's what I did.

I at least tried to read the manual first, but it had so much information in it I was quickly overwhelmed and just couldn't resist getting the grindstone wet.

[grepper]

Truth be told Herman, I read the manual too.  It didn't really help that much.