How to sharpen a scalloped bread knife

[haasm]

I am a new T7 user and would like to know how to sharpen a scalloped bread knife.
Is it just a matter of grinding the side that is not really scalloped with the T7, or do you need to use a hand tool to file the scallops, or do I just hone? If I grind what angle would be good?
The knife is not very blunt, it is just not razor-sharp.

[Ken S]

Martin,

Welcome to the forum.  I found an older post, which I revived.  I'm not computer savvy enough to quote it in your post.  Look at nearby posts.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I sharpened mine by grinding free hand on the side of the blade without the scallops.

As I recall this was a tip offered by Jeff.

[jeffs55]

Find a wooden dowel the size of the scallops and wrap it in fine wet or dry sandpaper. Increase the "fineness" of the paper by increasing the number of the grade of the paper as in  100 up to 600 or more. The finer the sharper but the longer it will take to achieve the same end result. Stroke the scallops which will by default sharpen the points. The points are there to keep the scallops from being worn down by keeping them elevated above the cutting board. Stroke the back of the blade lightly to remove any burrs resulting from the dowel treatment.

[Justin]

I know this is a different sharpening system but i think what he says is useful whatever device you use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqby2dO3_Q

[Ken S]

Interesting video, Justin.

Ken

[haasm]

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping for a none-manual approach because I am very poor at that. 
But if I understand the Edge Pro Apex video right, it is a matter of getting an angle of 6 or 7 degrees and sharpen the none-scalloped side. Does anyone have any experience in grinding an angle that small using the Tormek?

[Ken S]

Martin,

A little directed practice should have you sharpening like a champ.  Draw an angle of about seven degrees on a piece of paper.  Get a dowel that fits in your scallops.  (Quarter inch should do the trick)  Add one piece of about 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper.  Tape it to the dowel at each end.

You can begin by getting a feel for the dowel without the sandpaper. Hold the dowel at the angle you have drawn. Use the sandpaper dowel like a file.  Once the motion seems natural, add the sandpaper. 

Work slowly.  There is no rush.  Very soon, your bread knife will be very sharp, and you will have added to your skill base.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[Elden]

The video is very interesting and informative. He definitely brings out a point that I had trouble with the first time I tried to do serrations.  The knocking off of the points is something to make sure that does not happen. With the tapered diamond steels that I mentioned in the other thread, the knocking off of the points happens very easily.

[Justin]

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping for a none-manual approach because I am very poor at that. 
But if I understand the Edge Pro Apex video right, it is a matter of getting an angle of 6 or 7 degrees and sharpen the none-scalloped side. Does anyone have any experience in grinding an angle that small using the Tormek?

What he is describing in the video is how to sharpen that type of blade within the limits of the Apex system. Jeff has mentioned that he just does it flat. I would say on the Tormek it will be much easier to try it flat on a trued and finely graded stone. You may want to just put a just hint of a twist (as to encourage more attention on the cutting edge) but i wouldn't, i would just go lightly, checking often. You could be brave and try the side of the stone!

*EDIT* After looking at the photo's again there is a slight bevel on the backside of the blade. Assuming it was factory produced and of a consistent angle, you may need to match it. Grinding flat will just be thinning the blade for nothing. I thing the key with serrated knives is, less is more. I have a friend bringing me a serrated Japanese (61-62 rockwell) knife to take a look at. If i learn anything new i will report back, but knowing him and his ham-fisted methods i can't fail to make atleast some improvement...

[Herman Trivilino]

Does anyone have any experience in grinding an angle that small using the Tormek?

Yes.  You have to free hand it.  It's actually easier than free handing a pocket knife because it's bigger and you can feel it when the steel is lying flat on the grindstone.  Sort of like how you can feel it when you've got the steel lying flat on the honing wheel.

[Ken S]

Herman makes an excellent point.  He has also stated on the forum that part of his life working experience was working as a carpenter for a while.  As such, I'm sure he is no stranger to an oilstone of a file.

Norm Abram in his book, Measure Twice, Cut Once, states that his father could sharpen a chisel on a stone which looked like it had been machined. There is a lot to be said for directed experience. Using a Tormek should be an extension of our hands, not a replacement for them. 

Yesterday I thinned the bolsters on two of my kitchen knives.  I had reached the point Where the bolsters were protruding too much to maintain the curve of the blades.  (This procedure is often left out of knife sharpening material.)  A few freehand passes on the Tormek and the job was done.  I admit I don't have the skill to make it look as if I had machined it on a surface grinder, but the job is perfectly functional.  Any suggestions for improving this operation would be welcome.

After that, I tried just laying the knives on the stone (stone revolving AWAY).  I laid them parallel with the stone instead of perpendicular and eyeballed the bevel angle. Is this established orthodox best practice? Certainly not, but the knives do cut better now and my curiosity is satisfied.

So, to Martin and the others, don't be shy about "just doing it".

Ken

[Rob]

That's good advice. Since joining this forum I've had far more confidence in just trying different things with the tormek

[Herman Trivilino]

Herman makes an excellent point.  He has also stated on the forum that part of his life working experience was working as a carpenter for a while.  As such, I'm sure he is no stranger to an oilstone of a file.

Congrats, Ken.  I see your post count has reached 500 and you are a Hero Member.

It is true that I'm no stranger to files and oil stones.  My lack of skill with them is what led me to Tormek!

When I was a frame carpenter we used to go through a lot of the cheap circular saw blades.  My friend taught me how to sharpen them with just a file.  I held the blade between my knees.  We didn't have the luxury of a vise.

[Ken S]

Thanks, Herman.

Your sharpening circular saw blades with a file between your knees reminds me of some of the field conditions I had sharpening telephone drill bits.  Not pretty, but they cut well.

Ken