Conditioning the honing wheel

[Jefft]

I am a new user, picked a T7 up on the weekend, mounted everything per instructions.  I added light oil to the honing wheel, then a smear of honing paste and distributed it on the wheel using a chisel.  Before I left for work this morning I checked the honing wheel and it seemed a little hard and dry, is this normal??
Jeff

[ionut]

Hi Jeff,

It looks you didn't add enough oil on the wheel initially . I would try to clean the wheel with by using the side corner of a chisel to remove the excess honing paste and apply a bit more oil, don't go to crazy with it, some people complained of over oiled honing wheels even though I never seen that happening. If you use mineral oil from pharmacy I find that a bit too thick and if you don't wait enough for it to penetrate into the wheel it is easy to remove it. The idea is to bring the leather to a darker slightly wet color on all it's surface and after that apply an initial layer of honing compound covering the entire surface and work it into the wheel. When properly loaded with oil and honing compound the leather wheel has to feel like a soft rubbery surface catching your finger. Also make sure you use mineral oil which is not supposed to dry in time.

Ionut

[Jefft]

Great, thanks for info, I will try that tonight.  I used 3 in 1 oil, do you think that will work?

[ionut]

I never used that oil, it may be formulated with some evaporating components that would leave you with less oil than you expect. I only used honing oil or clean mineral oil, you can find it at pharmacies, both of them worked perfectly.

Ionut

[ionut]

You can re-apply oil directly on the wheel as it is now but it would be better if you clean it of the dried honing compound. When you do that if you use the side corner of a chisel you don't have to apply too much pressure, the idea is to clean the honing leather and not to thin the leather, also use a chisel that you don't mind if the side corner would get slightly rounded during the process.

Ionut

[Jefft]

Sounds like a plan, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Jeff Farris]

Well, I am going to have to completely disagree with Ionut. You don't need to do a thing to your wheel except use it, and add compound when you first use it and again every second or third tool. If you don't use it for a couple hours, put a little compound on the wheel. If you don't use it for two or three days, put a little compound on it. If you don't use it for two or three months, put a little compound on it....get the idea?

Put the nozzle right down on the wheel, squeeze gently and turn the wheel by hand. Play a little game with yourself to see how little compound you can apply and still make a continuous stripe all the way around the wheel.

Don't scrape the oil you've put on out, and don't put any more oil on. The purpose of the oil is to condition the leather and fill the base of the leather with oil rather than compound. After the one time only break-in application you shouldn't use anything except honing compound -- ever.  3-in-1 would not be my first choice, but it will do just fine. I recommend mineral oil, but that is difficult to find in certain parts of the world, where light machine oil is somewhat universally available. It really doesn't matter. The whole idea of recommending the oil is to save your compound while getting the honing wheel broken in.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to remove dried honing compound. Add a little fresh to the dried and it will contribute to the cutting action just as if it were fresh.

[ionut]

Hi Jeff,

Occasionally applying a bit of oil on the wheel is also suggested by the Tormek manual to maintain the efficiency of the honing and to avoid getting the compound dried on the wheel. I found they are right and few drops of oil on the wheel will bring it to the right working state.
Cleaning the wheel occasionally is not in the manual but after a large number of sharpening I found cleaning the excess of the used compound and steel mixture from the wheel not only makes the honing to be more efficient but helps with seeing the exact position of the cutting edge by avoiding the old gunk to get deposited on the tool, the surface is a bit firmer and it is easier to control the tool therefore the risk of accidentally rounding the edge is minimized or eliminated. This is simply what I have experienced.
Maybe in this case removing the dried compound is no necessary but obviously the leather wheel has not been oiled properly from the beginning and just compound added may only end in another dry honing wheel after another day. The role of the oil is to soften the leather which will  allow the compound to penetrate it and to keep it from getting dry. In the same manner I have revived two honing wheels at the local dealership that were almost petrified because of improper initial preparation.

Thanks,
Ionut

[Jefft]

Reading both your responses I got the sense that I didn't apply sufficient oil at the beginning of the conditioning process.  Last night I just added some more oil without trying to clean the wheel.  This morning the leather seemed to have softened up, when I get home this evening I will try to hone a chisel without scraping the excess honing compound off.

Thanks for the feedback, that's exactly the type of discussion a new user like me needs to hear.
Jeff

[Jeff Farris]

Ionut,

The problem with your comments is that I have seen hundreds of honing wheels that have been over-oiled --- far, far, far, more than I see under-oiled. Too much oil will provide a beautifully supple shiny wheel where the compound will spread evenly -- one problem however, it just won't cut. The surface gets too slick and the compound doesn't bite into the leather where it can cut the steel.

I would much rather see the user go through a little extra compound than have a wheel that will not cut.

[ionut]

Hi Jeff,

I understand perfectly but I also rely on the common sense of the users, there is no foolproof solution for anything, when I say few drops of oil I mean few drops of oil and not few bottles and if I recall correctly in my initial answer I have warned about the possibility of over oiling the wheel. I always try to make it clear about my suggestions or comments, they are ways I do things and found out that they work better for me, they are just my personal opinions, they can be followed or not, this is the choice of the user, I am just trying to share things that might be useful, answers to questions that I had a while back and nobody answered for me, I am not trying to show the absolute good or bad ways to do things. I have never tried to undermine you or anybody else and if my comments are not useful for the Forum and for Tormek, that's fine, let me know and I will stop posting them.  In regards to this particular question a dry honing wheel is as inefficient as an over oiled one, regardless how much anybody would try to guard others to make mistakes, oiling or non-oiling enough the leather will always happen,  There are ways to deal with both cases. In my case I have tried both solutions and FOR ME the method I presented earlier worked better. This doesn't mean I am the owner of the absolute truth.

Thanks,
Ionut

[Jeff Farris]

Ionut,

Your contributions are greatly appreciated. I'm doing just as you have said you're doing. I am providing my opinion based on almost 20 years of using the Tormek. I will only add that in my experience a dry honing wheel is much more efficient than an over-oiled wheel. A dry wheel just needs more compound. An over-oiled wheel will not cut no matter what you do or how much compound you apply. I've tried to squeeze and scrape the extra oil out in dozens of cases and have rarely been successful.

[ionut]

Hi Jeff,

I have never doubted your experience and knowledge about the Tormek products and even though we sometimes have different opinions about things, this doesn't mean I don't respect your opinions and your experience.

Thanks,
Ionut

[mGuitars]

I just tried mineral oil today and it is a night-and-day difference, compared to the 3-in-1 oil I was using.

The wheel is much more "grippy" or "rubbery" and the polishing/honing has improved by at least double!

I think the manual should advise against any use of 3-in-1 oil on the honing wheel!

[ionut]

Is that the same honing wheel you were afraid in an earlier post earlier you've ruined?
Most of the oils are lubricating oils some of them are conditioned with all kinds of evaporative stuff for cleaning and others solely for lubrication that is why some of the oils make the polishing/honing ineffective. Some of those substances may actually be bad for the leather. Mineral oil lubricates too but not as well as oils meant to be used only for lubrication and in case of honing is used for conditioning the leather.
I guess it would be hard for the manual to warn against thousands of types of oils, they simply said mineral oil.  I used honing oild which is actually mineral oil thinned to allow the abraded steel particles to float and therefore not glaze the stones. I used that with great results and when I ran out I used mineral oil from pharmacy and it works great.
Lately I started experimenting with my spare wheel on my second machine which I never used so before doing the stuff I wanted, I have tried a different method of cleaning the wheel less aggressive than the hard scrapping. After oiling it and messing it with some honing compound and actually honing with it until it became black, I scrapped lightly the mess and then with the machine stopped  and the wheel off the machine, I have saturated the wheel with a rag soaked in mineral spirits. I have put as much mineral spirit as possible . After that I used paper towels or shop towels to dry the wheel by b]pressing them on the wheel. Another way which I never tried but should work would be to get dowel as close as possible to the diameter of the honing wheel shaft hole and roll the when over some paper towels to absorb of the mineral oil/spirit mixture.  After extracting as much as possible from the wheel I left it to get dry for an hour or so and I started using it again.

Ionut