Marking chisels for initial insertion into jig

[pe2dave]

OK, I'm lazy.
I'd like to slip the chisel into the holder, SE-77 Square Edge Jig,
and know it was (near as ...) set for 25 or 30 degrees.
  Yes, it would need checking over the years, but ...
question: How to 'scratch' / mark a chisel against the jig?
Has anyone done this successfully please?

[Ken S]

Dave,

I have a better idea. Use the Tormek TTS-100. Use the closer hole to set the Distance from the grinding wheel to the support bar. The two Tormek patented metal wheels automatically adjust for changes in wheel diameter. The Distance will remain constant.

Place a chisel in the jig with the Projection set close to 25 or 30°. You can check this with the Anglemaster. Fine tune your Projction if needed. Place your in jig chisel in the three slots of the TTS-100. Mark the end of the bevel with a fine tipped Sharpie, and label it (25° or 30°).

I did this with one chisel twelve years ago, and have not needed to measure a chisel or plane blade since.

Ken

PS If you add camber to your plane blades with an SE-76 using "English" you may find it useful to use the further projection hole for more flex. If you do, I suhhest using a different color Sharpie for these marks.

[RichColvin]

I wanted to do the same.  That is what this jig is for https://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexJigs.html#ProjJigTTS100

[Ken S]

If you have access to a 3D printer, Rich's Projection jig is a more elegant way to set the Projection. The TTS-100 can also be used to set the Distance, as well as a square for marking the grinding wheel. For a busy woodworker, I would recommend having both.

Both the TTS-100 and Rich's jig work by using what I call the gage block principle. In precision machine shop practice, very accurate measurements can be made using precision ground hardened steel or carbide blocks. These are made in several grades, the highest grade will measure in millionths of an inch. While either of these jigs are nowhere near this super precise, they are both more precise than necessary for sharpening. Both are also repeatable. The chisels you sharpen today will have identical bevel angles to those you will sharpen months from now, without any further measuring.

Ken

[pe2dave]

ormek TTS-100.

The TTS-100 is shown as for turning gouges?
Manual Shows this?
  Not applicable to flat chisels?

[Ken S]

You are correct; the manual only shows the TTS-100 for turning gouges. That is unfortunate, as the TTS-100 has several more uses. My suggestion is based on my actual working method for more than ten years. Try it; you will find it works well. No marking is needed beyond the one initial mark, done only once. The patented two metal wheels automatically correct for wheel wear. Used this way, the angles are accurate and consistent.

I don'tknow why Tormek does not show other uses for the TTS-100.

Ken

[John Hancock Sr]

Just because something is "designed to be used for" does not mean "can only be used for". Ask any good engineer or designer. I have spent my life using things outside their intended purpose. Saves time money and a lot of effort.

[pe2dave]

You are correct; the manual only shows the TTS-100 for turning gouges. That is unfortunate, as the TTS-100 has several more uses. My suggestion is based on my actual working method for more than ten years. Try it; you will find it works well. No marking is needed beyond the one initial mark, done only once. The patented two metal wheels automatically correct for wheel wear. Used this way, the angles are accurate and consistent.

I don'tknow why Tormek does not show other uses for the TTS-100.

Ken

Thanks Ken. I'm now confused... Do you mean to set the 'universal rest' as well as the projection
of the chisel in the tts-100, then use the SE-77 to hone the chisel?
  Or to use the TTS-100 to hone it?
Or just use the 'extension' part of the TTS-100 (which would be easy to make).

[Ken S]

You can set the bevel angle with either the Distance from the grinding wheel to the support bar OR the Projection. Usually with chisels we control the setting by changing the Distance with the Microadjust.

Using my method with the TTS-100 automates both of these settings. Using the hole in the TTS-100 standardizes the Distance setting. The two metal wheels automatically compensate for differences in grinding wheel diameter.

Marking one of the slots in the TTS-100 for 25° Projection (or whatever angle you desire) is just a convenient way to do this. As you note, there are other easy ways to do this. Wooden stop blocks are a typical choice which work well.

Try it. Set the Distance using the TTS-100. If you prefer, use a stop block to set the Projection. You may have to do some trial and error fine tuning for the initial chisel. After that, everything is automated.


Ken

[pe2dave]

Thanks, worth a try.

[pe2dave]

Tweaks to the straight jig (SE77).
1. File off those (pointless?) marks atop the edge of the jig
2. Piece of ply to mark extensions for different chisels.
3. Use a square to *check* the chisel is square to the jig.
 - Combined with TTS-100, hopefully ease repeat setup.
Thanks for the suggestions.

Sigh. 3 pics taken to demonstrate - each one too big.
Shrunk to 800px. Hope the intent is clear.

[RichColvin]

The 3D-printed jig I outlined works the same way your board does for setting the protrusion of the chisel beyond the SE-77 jig.   And, as Ken noted, the TTS-100 is used to set the USB distance to the stone to a standard.  

This approach handles 3 angles:  20°, 25°, & 30°.  I think those work well for the majority of chisels.  

[pe2dave]

The 3D-printed jig I outlined works the same way your board does for setting the protrusion of the chisel beyond the SE-77 jig.   And, as Ken noted, the TTS-100 is used to set the USB distance to the stone to a standard. 

This approach handles 3 angles:  20°, 25°, & 30°.  I think those work well for the majority of chisels. 

Noted Rich: TTS-100 on order. Cost of my board? Nil. Cost of a 3D printer? No contest.
I'll report back on how well they work together.

[RichColvin]

Yeah, marks on plywood would work well too.  The projections needed are discussed in this forum thread:  https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4971.msg35710.html#msg35710

[RickKrung]

...snip...
Noted Rich: TTS-100 on order. Cost of my board? Nil. Cost of a 3D printer? No contest.
...snip...

One does not have to buy and learn to operate a 3D printer to have 3D printed stuff.  There are companies that offer 3D printing services, such as Shapeways.  I used them for printing a small tool/accessory for holding bamboo on a milling machine for making bamboo fly rods.  I had a quantity made, but the price was the same per unit for 1 or 10. 

My original machined holddown.
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3D printed holddown.
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Wandering a bit off topic: I went with 3D printed (in steel) because the machining, as I had done with my original ones, was too complex and the CNC shop that I've used for other tools declined to give me a bid/price, saying it would be prohibitively expensive.  This was a couple years ago.  I have redesigned this tool and am in the process of making jigs to simplify the production process and think I'll be able to machine them myself.  The two on the right are the two pictured above. Those grouped on the left are in process - not completed/finished - still working on the jigs but the process will be greatly simplified and much faster.  And, I actually use my T8 for finish grinding on the the end facets (Posted on this back when working on this earlier, where I used the DBS-22 on a belt grinder.  Not doing that now, rather the side of diamond wheels for the flat grind, using the jig on the left). 

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Rick