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Questions of new user regarding T4 and DBS

Started by keesh, September 16, 2023, 10:18:09 AM

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tgbto

Yes, it shouldn't hurt as the bit is only very slightly touching the stone, and the corners are to be rounded off.

RichColvin

Quote from: keesh on September 29, 2023, 11:10:24 AM
Quote from: RichColvin on September 23, 2023, 08:11:19 PMI have a SuperGrind 2000 & a T-8.  On both, I use the full width when using the DBS-22.

So you slide with the drill bit completely beyond the outer edge of the grinding stone?
I do
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

keesh

#17
So.... started off with grinding drill-bits on my T4 with the DBS-22.... Began with a almost new drill-bit 12 mm to get some experience..

Now, I did app. 8 drill-bits in different sizes and have some questions. At 1 drill-bit, the sound was rather noisy, and the water was spraying from the wheel. It was a Phantom PCD 8 mm drill-bit (with 5% Cobalt). Should this be a problem for the original Tormek stone? Or is the sound a coincidence maybe getting close to the base frequency causing resonance (due to the shape and the length it's sticking out of the holder..)?

After grinding 8 drill-bits, and one grinding some more due to some damage, I have the feel the wheel doesn't grind well at anymore. Sharpening the second facets was during ages on the last bit (9,5 mm diameter). I used the SP-650 stone grader on the coarse side for app. 10 seconds.. Some people with good advices?  :)

Oh and the magnifier is hard to use. It seems that I can only focus when the drill is sticking exactly the right length out of the holder... focusing doesn't have any effect while the focus is turned one way fully. Extruding the drill some more out of the holder wouldn't work, while the 'beam' in the magnifier (with Tormek on it) touches then the drillbit...

Kind regards!

John Hancock Sr

The wheel can sound noisy with the coarse setting when grinding at some angles and tools. Scissors for instance. Also the water spray is a constant hazard - again depending on what you are doing.

Drills I find to be problematic on the original stone, depending on the drill material. Drills for wood are often carbon steel and pose no issue. However most drill bits are high speed steel (HSS) and are of the same approximate hardness as Aluminium Oxide, which is the material of the original stone wheel. This means that the wheel can easily become glazed, especially when sharpening large drills, either for the first time where you have to establish the new bevels, or damaged drills. When it glazes it forms a hard outer layer that is difficult to remove and regrade and you need to use the TT-50 trueing tool to re-surface the wheel.

I don't have an issue with the magnifier. It did take some getting used to so maybe with practice it will become easier.

Ken S

I use my DBS-22 very infrequently. As a warmup, I always watch Alan Holtham's video linked here:

https://youtu.be/fSUa1iFUzkM?si=vy3VkykP1bvgw75h

I try to watch all of the Tormek related videos. I have found Alan's DBS-22 the best hands down.

Ken

keesh

Quote from: JohnHancock on November 02, 2023, 11:18:27 PMAlso the water spray is a constant hazard - again depending on what you are doing.


You mean that this is normal? Or that's a warning that I'm doing it wrong?

QuoteDrills I find to be problematic on the original stone, depending on the drill material. Drills for wood are often carbon steel and pose no issue. However most drill bits are high speed steel (HSS) and are of the same approximate hardness as Aluminium Oxide, which is the material of the original stone wheel. This means that the wheel can easily become glazed, especially when sharpening large drills, either for the first time where you have to establish the new bevels, or damaged drills. When it glazes it forms a hard outer layer that is difficult to remove and regrade and you need to use the TT-50 trueing tool to re-surface the wheel.

I don't have an issue with the magnifier. It did take some getting used to so maybe with practice it will become easier.


I didn't read that I need a different stone for grinding drill-bits... Maybe I have to apply the stone grader another time, but then a little longer (I also had the DBS-22 on the T4 when I useds the stone grader, while I wasn't finished with a drill-bit, so not ideal).

In the end, I will need the TT-50 truing tool... sooner or later..

keesh

Quote from: Ken S on November 03, 2023, 01:12:04 AMI use my DBS-22 very infrequently. As a warmup, I always watch Alan Holtham's video linked here:

https://youtu.be/fSUa1iFUzkM?si=vy3VkykP1bvgw75h

I try to watch all of the Tormek related videos. I have found Alan's DBS-22 the best hands down.

Ken

Alan is using the original stone too..

John Hancock Sr

Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMYou mean that this is normal? Or that's a warning that I'm doing it wrong?
What I mean is some sharpening can cause more splashing than others. But I always get water drippage, sometimes more than others.

Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMI didn't read that I need a different stone for grinding drill-bits...
Need, depends on how much drill sharpening you do. I do a lot and also have HSS planner blades and some higher hardness chisels and plane blades so went out and bought the diamond wheels. If you are only sharpening the occasional drill bit then probably not. Just re-true the stone prior to sharpening and you should be good to go.

Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMIn the end, I will need the TT-50 truing tool... sooner or later..
If the wheel is glazed then you will find it difficult to fix with just the grader.

keesh

Quote from: JohnHancock on November 05, 2023, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMYou mean that this is normal? Or that's a warning that I'm doing it wrong?
What I mean is some sharpening can cause more splashing than others. But I always get water drippage, sometimes more than others.

Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMI didn't read that I need a different stone for grinding drill-bits...
Need, depends on how much drill sharpening you do. I do a lot and also have HSS planner blades and some higher hardness chisels and plane blades so went out and bought the diamond wheels. If you are only sharpening the occasional drill bit then probably not. Just re-true the stone prior to sharpening and you should be good to go.

Quote from: keesh on November 03, 2023, 08:27:16 AMIn the end, I will need the TT-50 truing tool... sooner or later..
If the wheel is glazed then you will find it difficult to fix with just the grader.

Used the stone grader a couple of times... it makes a difference...

So I need to get some experience with grinding drill-bits, and then find out what works for me... I dont drill so much, but now, I have 2 sets of dull drills from 3 to 10 [mm]. So in the beginning, I will sharpen more drills that later I guess. Maybe I buy an diamond stone too, but thats for the future..

I also habe a Bosch (green DIY) drill-set, with TiN coated drills. What about them? For that price, they couldn't be that good...

John Hancock Sr

Quote from: keesh on November 09, 2023, 05:44:29 PMI also habe a Bosch (green DIY) drill-set, with TiN coated drills. What about them? For that price, they couldn't be that good...

One you sharpen the TiN is pretty much meaningless. Depends on the underlying steel really.

Ken S

The late Leonard Lee, founder of Lee Valley and Veritas, wrote an excellent book on sharpening. It should be part of every sharpener's library. His advice for sharpening drill bits was to only buy top quality US made high speed steel bits. That eliminates many sharpening problems.

Ken

John Hancock Sr

Quote from: Ken S on November 13, 2023, 04:54:10 AMtop quality US made

Or in our case "Australian made". We have a fantastic Australian maker Sutton Tools. But they are not cheap ;)  but they are world class.

Ken S


keesh

Quote from: Ken S on November 13, 2023, 04:54:10 AMThe late Leonard Lee, founder of Lee Valley and Veritas, wrote an excellent book on sharpening. It should be part of every sharpener's library. His advice for sharpening drill bits was to only buy top quality US made high speed steel bits. That eliminates many sharpening problems.

Ken

With the purpose to sharpen less drillbits, or no need at all to sharpen bits?