T1 online class Thursday, February 9

[Ken S]

February 9 will be the day for the new T1 online class.

https://www.youtube.com/live/nqD0cefN0yU?feature=share

Ken

[Ken S]

I'm glad I watched the class. For those of you who missed it, it has been added to Tormek's you tube channel.

Sebastien and Samuel answered several of my questions. The composite rubber honing wheel, just like the composite honing wheel for the T8, can be used dry or moistened with water. That strikes me as being similar to the stone grader effect. Used dry, it removes the burr. Used moist, it leaves a more highly polished surface.

Samuel, who was also part of the T1 design team, mentioned that he quickly hones his kitchen knives with his T1 before each cooking use. He keeps his T1 in his kitchen. This might initially seem like overkill; however, his knives are always tip top sharp.

I have done some preliminary test sharpening of one of my Mora knives with my T1. The tapered flat shape of the T1 diamond wheel seemed a good match for the Mora scandi grind. Sebastien suggested that the side of one of the D series wheels would be a better choice.

By removing the clamp, cleavers and other large knives can be sharpened.

The T1 is a specialty machine; it is not general purpose. In my opinion, it is very versatile for the home cook. It really is "plug and play". It is shipped fully assembled. Just plug in the power cord and turn on the switch. Clean up is quick and minimal. For sharpeners who also cook, it makes a perfect complement to a larger Tormek in the workshop. I highly recommend watching the video.

Ken

[HaioPaio]

I was very disappointed hearing that Wolfgang suggested sharpening highend Kitchenknifes with hard stells to 20 deg dps (40 deg total). He had confirmed that such knifes otherwise would be prone to chipping when sharpened by a T1 at smaller bevel angles.
This sounds like a no-go for users of such knives and I hope this can be clarified.
Can high end Kitchenknifes with very high HRC and thin geometry above the edge be sharpened to the approx. 12 deg dps, where such knifes cut best?

[cbwx34]

...
By removing the clamp, cleavers and other large knives can be sharpened.
...

This was also a "50 year anniversary" tip, (for the T2)...

... which makes me wonder, what is the purpose of the clip/clamp in the first place?  Seems like it would be better without it for all knives... easier to see what's going on, better control, etc.  Only real purpose I see is for the magnet, but that could be placed elsewhere.

[cbwx34]

I was very disappointed hearing that Wolfgang suggested sharpening highend Kitchenknifes with hard stells to 20 deg dps (40 deg total). He had confirmed that such knifes otherwise would be prone to chipping when sharpened by a T1 at smaller bevel angles.
This sounds like a no-go for users of such knives and I hope this can be clarified.
Can high end Kitchenknifes with very high HRC and thin geometry above the edge be sharpened to the approx. 12 deg dps, where such knifes cut best?

At this point in the video?

https://www.youtube.com/live/nqD0cefN0yU?feature=share&t=797

I interpret this as knives with "poor steel" (although he does say also "very brittle"), should be sharpened at a higher angle.  I'm not sure he meant "high end" knives?

(Or does he say this somewhere else?)

[Ken S]

I was very disappointed hearing that Wolfgang suggested sharpening highend Kitchenknifes with hard stells to 20 deg dps (40 deg total). He had confirmed that such knifes otherwise would be prone to chipping when sharpened by a T1 at smaller bevel angles.
This sounds like a no-go for users of such knives and I hope this can be clarified.
Can high end Kitchenknifes with very high HRC and thin geometry above the edge be sharpened to the approx. 12 deg dps, where such knifes cut best?

At this point in the video?

https://www.youtube.com/live/nqD0cefN0yU?feature=share&t=797

I interpret this as knives with "poor steel" (although he does say also "very brittle"), should be sharpened at a higher angle.  I'm not sure he meant "high end" knives?

(Or does he say this somewhere else?)

Haio Paio,

I was surprised with your interpretation of what Sebastien said. I replayedthe portion of the video mentioned by CB. To be very sure, I also watched the entire video another time. (I have already watched it around five times, as I have most of the Tormek online classes.) The words I heard were, "knives of poor steel quality or very brittle". (starting at 13:10 on the video)

If anything, at leastin theory, knives sharpened on the T1 should be ever so slightly stronger than the same knives sharpened on other Tormek models. This is due to the T1 producing flat ground bevels while the other Tormek models produce very mildly hollow ground bevels.

I would be very surprised if Tormek sold any machine which was incapable of sharpening high quality knives. The target market for the T1 is the home cook, more specifically, the home cook with high quality expectations. I would expect this level of home cook to be using high quality cutlery. Any sharpening machine incapable of sharpening knives of this quality would probably be returned to the vendor.

Ken

[HaioPaio]

I agree that I have interpreted the message rather than staying with the spoken word.
I try to be more careful this time and made a small transcript.

The question:

13:10
It`s strange. When I use the honingwheel on stainless steel kitchen knifes, I seem to blunt the edge, rather than improving it.

The response:

13:27
It can sometimes be, when you have knives with poor steel quality or that is very brittle, if any have quite a small edge, it`s very thin and then it can fall apart and that can happen when you hone it.
So, what I would recommend, to put a bit of a bigger angle, like perhaps 40 deg in total (20 deg per side) to make sure the tip of the bevel really stays together, is a god tip. That might be the case what happens.

My remarks:
The questioner did not confirm that the knifes being sharpened were indeed made of poor steel quality. Knifes rather than only one knife were mentioned. However no more details were communicated.

Sebastien mentioned poor steel quality, followed by describing a small and very thin edge.

My point is, that poor steel quality will not allow making knives with very thin and small bevels. However modern high quality stainless steels allows making such knifes with thin geometry and the majority of todays high end knives with stainless steel is having the described geometry.
Those knives with thin geometry have a very good cutting performance.

Sebastiens conclusion that knives with very thin geometry are made of poor steel quality does seem to be questionable.

His suggestion to sharpen such very thin geometry knives to 40 deg total is questionable as well.

If Sebastien would have asked back with what steel type and knife geometry the questioner had experienced the problem of dulling during honing, we would know more.

[Ken S]

I see your point. The facts presented are incomplete, and the interactive format of the online classes is not conducive to either detailed questions or detailed answers. I prefer a format which encourages more complete and prepared dialogue. Over the years, I have sent support numerous questions. I try to include all the relevant facts, and appreciate that researching these answers may require some time and go beyond quoting the handbook.

Given the time and format constraints, I believe Sebastien's answer was reasonable. It may or may not have been the correct diagnosis; however, it was a logical best guess. While writing this, I listened to the video another time.  (13:10) I did not hear the words "high quality" referring to the stainless steel of the poster's knives. When I was first using my Tormek to sharpen knives, I purchased several ten dollar stainless knives at my local grocery store. While these have worked remarkably well, I do not consider them high quality. With the poster's knives, other than being stainless steel, we really do not know the quality. If the poster is a forum member, I hope he will share more information. It would be nice to have a clearer picture.

Ken

[HaioPaio]

Ken
Thanks. It would be off topic to go deeper into the technical background.
My comment was related to the presentation only.
If there would be constraints in using a T1 for certain stainless steels, it would be worth opening a separate topic.

[Ken S]

Gerd,
I agree that the time constraints of a live presentation can pose difficulties.
That said, I can not imagine Tormek selling a premium level specialty machine for knife sharpening which would not work with stainless steels used in kitchen knives.
I would look more closely at honing technique.
Ken

[tgbto]

If anything, at leastin theory, knives sharpened on the T1 should be ever so slightly stronger than the same knives sharpened on other Tormek models. This is due to the T1 producing flat ground bevels while the other Tormek models produce very mildly hollow ground bevels.

Are there any elements supporting the theory that a hollow ground bevel would be weaker than a flat ground bevel, for the same apex angle ?

[cbwx34]

If anything, at leastin theory, knives sharpened on the T1 should be ever so slightly stronger than the same knives sharpened on other Tormek models. This is due to the T1 producing flat ground bevels while the other Tormek models produce very mildly hollow ground bevels.

Are there any elements supporting the theory that a hollow ground bevel would be weaker than a flat ground bevel, for the same apex angle ?

I thought the opposite had been proven...

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,1860.0.html
https://forum.tormek.com/?topic=2413.0
https://forum.tormek.com/?topic=3428

[Ken S]

If anything, at leastin theory, knives sharpened on the T1 should be ever so slightly stronger than the same knives sharpened on other Tormek models. This is due to the T1 producing flat ground bevels while the other Tormek models produce very mildly hollow ground bevels.

Are there any elements supporting the theory that a hollow ground bevel would be weaker than a flat ground bevel, for the same apex angle ?

Hollow vs non hollow grinding seems to be a popular debate topic. For me, with the diameter of the Tormek wheels, it is a non issue. I remember in the 1970s it was a hot topic. The standard dry grinders back then had six inch wheels (before any wear). The hollow could be easily seen on chisel bevels.

I can't think of supporting evidence off hand for hollow vs flat ground off hand. Any difference seems like it would be miniscule. I will concede the point.

Ken