Blackstone Wheel

[Thy Will Be Done]

Looking at the labeling on the Sun Tiger wheels for the Tormek, if you click on the picture it expands.  Under abrasive type, I see 'KD'.  Which I take to mean 'King Deluxe', if you look up both the 800 grit and 4000 grit King Deluxe stones both are identical in color to the wheels.  Therefore, it's likely to be just a standard King Deluxe formula to the composition.  This makes me think you also need to soak the wheel for potentially 20-30 minutes before use to get the best results.

Another interesting thought, most everyone who uses waterstones does so in a way that allows the surface build up a mud or slurry.  This helps to minimize burr formation and you would not get this effect running water in the trough.  I would be curious to try and use the stone soaked and well hydrated but WITHOUT the water placed in the trough when using it for sharpening and not just polishing bevels.  Seems it would be the best option as it should release abrasive well to keep from loading the stone.

[Ken S]

Good sleuthing.

I usually fill my water trough until the water starts flowing over the wheel. I leave my Tormek running, adding just enough more water until the absorption has stopped and the water is just running over the top of the wheel again. This only takes a moment or two. I would think this would also be adequate with the King Deluxe wheels, also.

Ken

[aquataur]

May I contribute my humble opinion.

King and Sun Tiger are both brands by Masanuga, Japan.
For whetstones: the following is known:

King stones are relatively soft and pleasant to use, because one can see and feel how the stone cuts the surface. This type of soft stone must be flattened relatively frequently, however, as it quickly becomes dished.

The 240 grit whetstone from Sun Tiger is also quite soft and will also become dished fairly quickly.
(Source)

The softer the stone, the more it needs to be watched, and the more frequently it needs to be flattened. This is not everyone's cup of tea, but if you accept the need for this, you will enjoy the services of a wonderfully quick-working stone. The Sun Tiger 240 also needs much less pressure than, say, the Shapton 120. The softer stone simply grips and starts cutting from the first stroke.

(Highlighting by me)

For whetstones, I personally never got on with those soft ones. I hate the sludge. I prefer hard-bonded (is this the term?) Silicon carbide or similar.

I have reasons to believe that this applies for the wheels too. They are not to everybody´s taste...

[Thy Will Be Done]

May I contribute my humble opinion.

King and Sun Tiger are both brands by Masanuga, Japan.
For whetstones: the following is known:

King stones are relatively soft and pleasant to use, because one can see and feel how the stone cuts the surface. This type of soft stone must be flattened relatively frequently, however, as it quickly becomes dished.

The 240 grit whetstone from Sun Tiger is also quite soft and will also become dished fairly quickly.
(Source)

The softer the stone, the more it needs to be watched, and the more frequently it needs to be flattened. This is not everyone's cup of tea, but if you accept the need for this, you will enjoy the services of a wonderfully quick-working stone. The Sun Tiger 240 also needs much less pressure than, say, the Shapton 120. The softer stone simply grips and starts cutting from the first stroke.

(Highlighting by me)

For whetstones, I personally never got on with those soft ones. I hate the sludge. I prefer hard-bonded (is this the term?) Silicon carbide or similar.

I have reasons to believe that this applies for the wheels too. They are not to everybody´s taste...

How wide were the bevels you were grinding and how much force were you using?  I suspect you were using them on the edge bevel, which will surpass the minimum amount of pressure required to get the stone to release abrasive.  This can be a good thing as it will minimize the effect of overgrinding to form a burr.  If you understand this and do not try and apex on this stone but rather switch to a hard bond stone once the apex stops reflecting light then you will come to appreciate never having to remove a burr (because you don't create one) and taking but a minute or two on a finishing stone to get razor sharp edges.

I believe that the main reason us 'westerners' don't take to the muddy waterstones is because you are trying to use them to grind edge bevels and they are really optimized for grinding primary bevels.  In Japan, they refer to the primary 'grind' of the knife as the 'primary edge' and the edge bevel as the 'secondary edge'.  Traditionally, the primary edge would be worked first and then the secondary edge would be the final step in a sharpening.  In western culture, the only focus is on the 'secondary edge' and there is no addressing the primary edge. 

So naturally, western stones such as Carbonundum (Crystolon) and India (plus others) had to have a much stronger bond to handle grinding only on secondary edge.  These types of stones will quickly glaze and stop cutting if used on a primary edge bevel, whereas the waterstones will just keep cutting.  In general, too strong of a bond is usually much more of a problem than too weak.  Messy, sure, but the thing just keeps working.

[aquataur]

This is very interesting.
Before I start, I am confused about the nomenclature, primary, secondary...

Are you referring to the same thing (relief) as quoted here?

Others have talked about it.  For example in the "Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" (which you can now get for free HERE,) they talk about the "relief" of the blade...

please elaborate.
-Helmut

[Thy Will Be Done]

This is very interesting.
Before I start, I am confused about the nomenclature, primary, secondary...

Are you referring to the same thing (relief) as quoted here?

Others have talked about it.  For example in the "Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" (which you can now get for free HERE,) they talk about the "relief" of the blade...

please elaborate.
-Helmut

It is confusing because depending on where you are it may be reversed.  I use the American nomenclature of calling the primary grind the main or largest bevel on the tool.  The secondary edge would be the part that you take to apex to initiate the cuts.  I think the Japanese reverse it, which makes more sense to me.  They call the apex forming bevel the 'primary edge' and what we call the primary grind the 'secondary edge'.