Diamond and CBN wheels

[Sharpski]

I recently upgraded to the tormek T8 and so far so good but wanted to get some new wheels.

The diamond wheels from Tormek seem very good, but also considering the CBN wheels if I can track some down. I see they are on still listed for sale on Knife Grinders Aus but I don't know if anyone has successfully ordered from them recently. I saw his son may still be fulfilling order of what they have left.

I am sharpening mainly higher end pocket knives, kitchen knives and various tool blades from chisels to plane blades

Anyway thoughts and experience are appreciated!

[RickKrung]

I recently upgraded to the tormek T8 and so far so good but wanted to get some new wheels.

The diamond wheels from Tormek seem very good, but also considering the CBN wheels if I can track some down. I see they are on still listed for sale on Knife Grinders Aus but I don't know if anyone has successfully ordered from them recently. I saw his son may still be fulfilling order of what they have left.

I am sharpening mainly higher end pocket knives, kitchen knives and various tool blades from chisels to plane blades

Anyway thoughts and experience are appreciated!

I would not be trying to buy anything from the KG site unless and until you can get a live response from his son or someone there to let you know that there is anything still available. 

I've gone just about entirely to the Tormek diamond wheels, plus a 180 grit CBN as the first step, all followed by the Tormek SJ and then rock hard felt wheel with 1µ diamond paste.  Maybe a year or two since I even mounted the SG or SB.  I'm not trying to make any money sharpening, so take my time, even when doing multiples for others, working through all the grits in sequence.  I read a good bit about some jumping grits, such as from the DC to DE and such.  I don't care for those large jumps in the scratch pattern and how much time it takes to get rid of the coarser marks.  But, some seem to do just fine, I guess. 

I've had the diamond wheels since they first came out and they are still doing fine.  Had the CBN for a 1-1/2 yrs and like it as the first step.  Also have an 8", 80 grit CBN on a slow speed bench grinder for really heavy stuff.  Don't use that much at all for knives. 

Rick

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Sharpski.

I recommend that your first order of business should be answering some basic questions.

How much sharpening do you reasonably plan to do? If you plan on sharpening your own knives and tools or some for friends and family, your needs will be different than if you realistically plan to become a farmers market warrior and sharpen over a hundred knives each Saturday morning. The warrior can probably justify justify at least another $1000. USD investment in grinding wheels, if he charges enough for his services. Such an investment for the home basement sharpener would definitely be a "want" rather than a "need".

How much of your sharpening is with abused tools or knives? Hopefully your own knives and tools are just dull. And, hopefully, once you sharpen your own gear, you will be more careful with it and resharpen it before it becomes really dull in the future. If you choose to sharpen abused knives and tools,you should command premium fees. Frankly, if a customer is not willing to pay premium prices for sharpening abused tools, a major investment in grinding wheels is not worth it. You can reasonably give family and friends a little leeway. Maybe you sharpen a few abused tools with the recommendation that they replace the tools if they continue to abuse them.

Diamond or CBN? I will tell you honestly that either will get the job done. I will also tell you that since this is Tormek's forum and that since I am very partial to Tormek products, My first recommendation will be Tormek diamond wheels. One of the myths about grinding wheels is that all the grits need to be matching materials and brands. this is simply not true. I generally use the
SG-250 for knives and woodworking tools. Its aluminum oxide structure is optimized for carbon and stainless steel.

Spend some time really studying the Tormek youtube channel online classes. Standard Tormek wisdom is to learn how to use your machine using your SG-250. It is versatile and rugged. Learn how to use the TR-50 truing tool, the stone grader, and grinding pressure.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[3D Anvil]

As Rick said, KGA is essentially out of business except for selling off any remaining inventory and digital media like Wootz's deburring book.  However, you can also get Tormek-compatible CBN wheels from SchleifJunkies.com and Woodturnerswonders.com.  I have 160, 400, and 1000 grit wheels from SchleifJunkies and I like them a lot.  Unlike the others, or Tormek's diamond wheels, the Schleifjunkies wheels can be run in plain water without worrying about corrosion.

One thing I'd add to Ken's comment is that there is another consideration besides cost and volume when it comes to wheel type.  If you frequently sharpen steels with high vanadium content, or if you want to sharpen ceramic knives, diamond or CBN are really a must.

[Dutchman]

... snip
Tormek-compatible CBN wheels from SchleifJunkies.com
... snip

That URL for Schleifjunkies is incorrect. That should be schleifjunkies.de

[3D Anvil]

... snip
Tormek-compatible CBN wheels from SchleifJunkies.com
... snip

That URL for Schleifjunkies is incorrect. That should be schleifjunkies.de

Right, sorry!

[Drilon]

It depends where you are located, you may get the CBN wheels directly from the chinese producer https://www.forever-superabrasives.com/solution/41.html

Regards
Drilon

[Ken S]

As Forum Moderator, I am becoming uncomfortable with this topic. Tormek sells diamond wheels. CBN wheels are sold by competitors. This is Tormek's forum.

The original question is a fair question. At this point, we have posted the present business situation with Knife Grinders and a website address for another vendor. Please address further CBN questions to the vendor or Send a PM to individual member.

Ken

[Drilon]

Sorry!

Regards
Drilon

[Ken S]

Drilon,

Not a big deal. I'm just trying to keep the forum relatively on track.

Ken

[Sharpski]

Thanks for the welcome and good information. I am not planning on any high output sharpening business. I sharpen for myself and friends/family. I sharpen at something at least 2-4 times per month. I have been keeping things sharp for quite a while and don't settle when it comes to and edge. I bought the tormek system to reduce the time it took to sharpen what needed to sharpen.

Yes, I agree that diamond wheels would definitely be classified as a want and not a need, but I want faster, consistent results.

The SG 250 has worked fine for my wood working tools but from what I have sharpened recently I have found myself finishing some of my plane blades on my whetstones since I am used to a certain result. I do sharpening a lot of high vanadium knives which is what I will probably sharpening the most of. Hence, the interest in CBN and diamond, thank you KGA for that great research!

Overall, I think you all have answered what I needed to know. I was leaning towards the tormek diamond stones and wanted to make sure that people had a good experience with them and there is no huge advantage over the CBN stones. The whole anti corrosion additive is not a huge deal to me. I know that the KGA stones had very specific embedding rates that he found worked best. I don't know what is the suggested rate or what tormek uses on their diamond stones. These stones are an investment so I wanted to make sure that I would be happy with purchase for years to come.

Personally, I would rather stick with tormek branded equipment if possible. I have been impressed with their quality and attention to detail and from a long term perspective they will always be there in case I run into an issue with their products.

Thank you all, and I am sure I will post with more update and questions as I get more hours in.

[Ken S]

Sharpski,

You apparently sharpen different tools than I do. Almost all of my sharpening is my carbon steel woodworking tools, a few carbon steel pocket knives, and my stainless kitchen knives. These are all within the scope of the SG. If I sharpened high vanadium tools and knives like you do, I would feel differently.

I would follow Tormek's recommendation of the 600 grit DF-250 diamond wheel as a good general purpose wheel. It cuts reasonably fast and leaves a smooth finish.

Ken

[Sharpski]

Sharpski,

You apparently sharpen different tools than I do. Almost all of my sharpening is my carbon steel woodworking tools, a few carbon steel pocket knives, and my stainless kitchen knives. These are all within the scope of the SG. If I sharpened high vanadium tools and knives like you do, I would feel differently.

I would follow Tormek's recommendation of the 600 grit DF-250 diamond wheel as a good general purpose wheel. It cuts reasonably fast and leaves a smooth finish.

Ken

Thank you. I am thinking the 600 and 1200 grit to start and going from there.

The SG has really been fine for the carbon steel. I just have always honed up to higher girt. I had planned to get the SJ wheel but then I read the comparison of sharpening high vanadium steels with aluminum oxide vs diamond, and that changed everything since I do frequently sharpen pocket knives with so called "super steels".

For my carbon steel I will likely continue to use the SG and maybe a felt wheel which I have ordered to hone a bit to a higher grit if I really want.

Thanks again for you insight you have been most helpful!

[3D Anvil]

If you want to go for a higher polish on wear-resistant steels, another option would be to purchase another leather wheel and use it with diamond paste, and reserve the wheel you have for carbon steels and Tormek paste.

[Drilon]

Which grain size would you recommend?

Regards,
Drilon