Is FVB Jig still available?

[jvh]

... My main use for this would be using it to get a more precise angle when I'm honing along with the honing calculator that Vadim used in one of his video.  The extra sharpness he got out of the knife after using the FVB was pretty impressive.

Hello,

The claim that extra sharpness can be achieved using FVB makes no sense from a technical point of view, whether you use a calculator or not.
As long as the same honing wheel is used, the same angle setting, the same procedure (guidance, pressure and number of passes) and of course the same knife in the jig, it doesn't matter what position the sharpening is done in.

OK, we can talk about ergonomics where FVB IMHO slightly leads, also there is no risk of the above mentioned jig collisions with Tormek nuts, it helps sharpen specific knives etc. On the other side, on a horizontal USB you can better see the apex and the process of forming of the grinding paste on it while honing.

I admit that ergonomics can affect the result, but a significantly different result has no technical justification, especially when both methods of honing allow comfortable work.

The causes of such a result can only that:
1. Different angle was set on FVB and horizontal USB (my guess).
2. A different honing procedure has been used, which means different pressure and guidance of the jig.
3. You want to get the results you expect / confirmation bias.
4. Marketing interests prevail (whatever that sounds like).
5. I'm completely wrong and arguments will come up to prove it. Until then, I'll take the claims of extra sharpness from FVB as myths, of which there have been many and they go round and round.

I'm sorry if that sounded harsh, but I see no reason not to speak out against things that don't make sense from a technical standpoint.

I am working to put together an offering for this & a few other items like Rick's pin pivot jig.  As I look at the prices for various metals, aluminum is significantly less expensive than stainless steel, so I will be able to offer a FVB in aluminum for much less than stainless steel.  Also, if the two rods are threaded, that adds a lot to the cost.

So what I am looking at as options are:

   
• Stainless steel block with stainless steel threaded rods or
• Aluminum block with straight, unthreaded rods (like the original universal support bars)

The stainless steel will probably be 2x the cost of the aluminum one.  Which would be preferred?

Rich

Aluminum block (cheaper, lighter), definitely with straight bars (no thread), with stops and grooves for quick adjustment - reasons and inspiration here https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4129.0

jvh

[Ringarn67]

I made a CAD-model based on numbers from JVH's Tormekcalc.
There's two versions.
One with the BGM-100
https://grabcad.com/library/tormek-fvb-based-on-tormekcalc2-1

And one "complete", no need for a BGM-100
https://grabcad.com/library/tormek-front-vertical-base-onepiece-1

Agree with "non-treaded rods", never use the nut on mine.

[TireguyfromMA]

Well I ended up buying the FVB and a Pivot Pin from Hanns at Schleifjunkies.  I'm sure I could have made one for a little less but I just wanted to "get er dun".  Delivery is looking like the first week of March. I do have to say that Hanns is very good to work with, communication about the order has been very good.  I'll let you guys know how it works out after I've had some time to work with it.  Cheers

[Pietje]

Hi,

With that said, can anyone advise me if the FVB jig is still available to purchase?  I see this as the next tool I must have for my T8.

Thanks!

Lokk also at

Code Select Expand

https://www.feines-werkzeug.de/werkzeuge/

[Ken S]

JVH makes some good points about the FVB. I approached the issue from a much simpler, low tech manner. Those of you who have followed my posts over the years know that I have defended the T4 even before it was introduced in 2014. According to the handbook, the T4 can only be used in knife honing using the handheld method. I wanted to explore whether this was true or not. As part of the same exploration, I wanted to see if I could both sharpen and hone my ten inch chef's knife while held in the SVM-45 jig using my T4.

Supporting the extra length of my long chef's knife, with either the T4 or T8 was no problem. Using a homemade small platform solved the length support problem if no knife jig was used. I will limit my discussion to the second method, using the longer and taller US-430 support bar. The US-430 gives solid support for long knives mounted in the jig.

The constraint with honing or sharpening in the horizontal position occurs when the jig is used with the plastic topped locking screw is used in the direction where it is below the jig. It protrudes too much to clear the plastic topped locking screws on the horizontal sleeves. As Tormek has always preferred handheld honing, this did not seem to be a problem to them. This constraint is easily and inexpensively solved in the field by substituting different locking screws.

Most Tormek locking screws use a standard M6 metric thread. My first choice was to use button cap screws. I found these at my local big box hardware store. As I recall, the screws I found were 12mm thread length. These were a little too long and caused the cap to protrude just enough to bump into the USB. I ground off the excess length using my belt grinder, although I could have used my Tormek. (Hold the screw in the Allen wrench.) The screw thread must be long enough to bottom out against the support bar before the top bottoms out against the jig of sleeve.

I wanted to offer a no grinding solution. I borrowed an idea from Rick Kruger and used socket set "grub" screws. These fit entirely in the threaded hole; no grinding is necessary. Three are needed, one for the jig and two for the horizontal sleeves. These can be quickly switched back and forth with the Tormek screws as needed. You will need a set of small metric Allen wrenches, an inexpensive item with many home and shop uses.

Two more very minor corrections are necessary. As you run the jig across the support bar, a small area of the back of the jig bumps into the jig. This small area must be ground off. You can do this with the Tormek or a belt grinder. This in no way effects the functioning of the jig. Some Support bars have a high spot in the weld. A file or wet and dry abrasive paper makes quick work of this.

With these minor modifications, sharpening longer knives and jigged honing is no problem with either the T4 or T8.

So, is a FVB necessary? I would say no, especially for low volume home sharpeners keeping an eye on expenses.
If a FVB convenient? Definitely. Using it requires no tools (Allen wrenches). I purchased a FVB from Knife Grinders. It is a good tool. I use it occasionally, mostly for more flexibility in holding tools. Having the FVB, I will probably use my substitute screws only rarely, if at all. If I was not comfortable with handheld honing and on a tight budget, the substitute screws would be an adequate fix for $5 instead of a $100 FVB.

Ken

[Nico]

At the risk of re-asking the obvious...

I too was interested in the FVB. It's claim was "Controlled-angle honing and edge-trailing grinding of knives, cleavers and wide blades".

OK, so I am using the USB in the standard horizontal position on my T8 for honing. When switching from grinding to honing, I adjust the wheel diameter on the AngleMaster to 215mm and re-set the USB horizontal distance using that tool, the same way as I use it for setting the edge angle when grinding with USB in the vertical base.

I've assumed that this process will give me accurate control of the honing angle, but now wondering with the FVB's claims whether that approach has been wrong?

Aside from the other virtues of the product (e.g. better ergonomics, overcoming the interference with the jig screws, working with KG's software to get more accurate and repeatable results, etc. etc.) do I need the FVB to get a better honing angle than my current method?

[cbwx34]

At the risk of re-asking the obvious...

I too was interested in the FVB. It's claim was "Controlled-angle honing and edge-trailing grinding of knives, cleavers and wide blades".

OK, so I am using the USB in the standard horizontal position on my T8 for honing. When switching from grinding to honing, I adjust the wheel diameter on the AngleMaster to 215mm and re-set the USB horizontal distance using that tool, the same way as I use it for setting the edge angle when grinding with USB in the vertical base.

I've assumed that this process will give me accurate control of the honing angle, but now wondering with the FVB's claims whether that approach has been wrong?

Aside from the other virtues of the product (e.g. better ergonomics, overcoming the interference with the jig screws, working with KG's software to get more accurate and repeatable results, etc. etc.) do I need the FVB to get a better honing angle than my current method?

You can use Calcapp (link in my signature), or any calculator that measures directly to the wheel, to set the position of the USB both for grinding and honing... even if you use it in the horizontal position.  Might give that a try.

(Should be more accurate than the AngleMaster.)

[GeoBoy]

I like the idea of using 2 MB-100's as demonstrated on the Recurve video #17 .

[WimSpi]

Perhaps no longer applicable for TS. But I made my own FVB out of wood and so far that works superbly too.
You do need to be able to work wood accurately

See my post:

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=profile;u=33597;area=showposts;start=30

[sharpening_weasel]

[removed, not sure how to delete post entirely. Apologies Ken.]

[John_B]

Just a note the Knife Grinder app no longer seems to work and is not available in the APP store.