Why Felt is Best for Deburring

[Hannsi1957]

To all the rock hard felt people, how much pressure do you use? I have the "proper" RHF and use the 1 micron spray...but for some reason I don't have the kind of results I read about on this forum. I use a very light pressure, basically just the weight of the knife itself. I have  BESS tested and usually see a decrease in sharpness. For information I might go from cbn 400 to 1000 and then debur on the 250 mm leather wheel from Hanns. Usually 1 degree higher. At that point I'm happy with the results. BUT if I decide to get sharper on the RGF...it's worse??

hmmmm, i test a lot with this costelation... after the 1000 grit wheel go on the Felt with 1° more then u grind before, then use the leather with ur previous grindingangle.
4 strokes each side on the felt wheel with no pressure should work. same on the leatherwheel with a little pressure.

cheers Hanns

[BeSharp]

Little to no pressure.

From experience, BESS readings increasing tells me I have to re-spray the 1micron diamond onto the felt wheel.

You might want to try Tormek's new CW-220 composite deburring wheel. I reported my extremely positive expereience with it a couple of months ago. 

[Hannsi1957]

much, doesn't always help much. i coat my felt wheel a maximum of 3-4 times a year. that's perfectly adequate. the thing with the BESS values i've already shown in a video.You can't rely on this at all, because far too many components play into the measurement. and as I said before, whether I cut myself with 50 or 60 Bess...... hurts both.

[BeSharp]

Well, I see a hugh difference, 80-100 suddenly jumps up to around 300. And when I re-spray it goes down again to 80-100. And since you and I use different wheels, honing compounds, and software you are correct, our situations are not comparable.

I'm not saying one is better than the other; just sharing my observations with MY equipment.

[tgbto]

I am too new to sharpening on Tormek to have definitive ideas on felt vs leather, so learning from your feedbacks is really helpful.

I am currently practicing on shun knives, and I feel the Nakiri - having a straight blade - makes things reproducible enough. I tried honing on both the leather wheel with the Tormek compound and a felt wheel with 1µ diamond spray. 5 passes with little to no pressure on each, with the KG FVB set according to wootz's app, each time after having set a 16° angle on the SG coarse then fine. Twice each.

I could feel a real difference when trying to shave paper, the diamond/felt combination making paper shaving feel way easier.

Purchasing and reading the book by wootz was enlightening, as well as binge watching youtube videos on deburring, but left me with the following question : is there a way to tell you've removed the wire burr without having to perform bess tests ? I think I saw on several occasions something along the line of "oops, I might have left a wire edge that mushroomed then collapsed during the bess test, so I'd better hone some more". Or do you have to overhone when you don't have a bess test setup to make sure you've removed everything ?

[BradGE]

Hi TGBTO,

The wire edge is such a fine and elusive thing that I think rather than looking for another detection method that may be inconclusive, it would be best to just get yourself a BESS tester (even the PT50-C).  You already are binge-watching wootz, plus reading about deburring, using FVB, felt, diamond sprays etc... these are all classic symptoms of BESS tester owners

[micha]

  As I can confirm unfortunately, that is exactly how it all starts... 

[jvh]

Hello tgbto,

the best what can you buy, IMHO, is a good microscope (ca 300x magnification). It gives you real time feedback over your sharpening technique and you will see what is going on the edge for different steels or the same steel with different heat treatment.

Some equipment can help you repair damage caused by poor technique but I think that targeting to the source of errors is a better way.

You can see a lot of problematic parts in recommended videos, typical scenario is:
1. Now I show you how to sharpen knife.
2. Grinding on few stones + honing on few wheels.
3. Look at the BESS result. Hm, this is not as expected!
4. We do another honing and/or use leather strop...

Point 3 means that there is something wrong with procedure or sharpening technique. Point 4 is using brute force for correction without checking what is wrong on the apex.

The burr-free apex can be achieved before honing.


jvh

[tim]

Anyone aware of a US source for this felt?

[BeSharp]

www.durofelt.com

Vadim ("Wootz") says he has purchased from them.

I have a Durofelt 8" x 1" rock hard felt wheel loaded with Autosol metal polish.

Very nice people to deal with.

If you're in the US, free shipping.

[aquataur]

I want to get me a felt wheel too.
I am confused about this matter. I have been reading all messages here and what they offer in Germany, too many diverging opinions. Vadim writes that those glue bonded wheels are inferior. They may have false high densities. (most certainly the German wheels are not manufactured in Germany).
I have seen written somewhere that there is a technological limit to how thick a felt wheel can be made without using adhesive.

The durofelt company delivers overseas I see, but they only have 8"x1" wheels (2.5cm); everybody rants about far thicker wheels like 3-4, even 5cm (Letting alone the fact that even a 4" wheel is pushing the limit hard for the small Tormeks mount).

Is there any merit using a thicker wheel for honing?
What is your experience after years of experience?

Would you go for a 3cm 0.9g "rock hard" wheel from local dealers (wherever the wheel / wool may come from), which according to Vadim´s grading is already "flint-hard",or for the durofelt 2.5cm 0.8g rock hard?

Thanks.

[Ken S]

Aquataur,

Part of my regular Tormek sharpening self education is regularly watching videos and reading articles about other methods of sharpening. One of the most informative articles I have found about dry grinding is by Joel Moskowitz. He advocates shaping the grinding wheel with a crown in order to limit the area of the tool with the grinding wheel. This is very effective in preventing overheating the tool. Most grinding wheels start out with a width of one inch before crowning.

With that in mind, I don't see the need for or advantage of wider felt wheels.

Ken

[aquataur]

Thanks Ken.

Ahh, time is so short, and so many alleys to explore

I noticed that the web page of late KG shows slim felt wheels, although in his videos he uses thicker ones.
Other videos on felt wheels I did not find, except maybe Hanns in Germany, and he uses an even thicker wheel.5cm for the T3... I dont know. Even 4 pushes the envelope hard. But they are currently unavailable anyways.

A different german seller has 3cm wheels, 0.9 density, I think I go for this, hardness or not.

I had the suspicion that a fat wheel is deemed some kind of phallus symbol, just like a fat rear wheel on your motorbike...

What was supporting this notion further was the fact that all paper wheels are slim.
I looked into that too, but I think this is a realm beyond me.
Paper at high speed behaves probably no different than a naked MDF board... wood in a different state of matter. And I think I fear those things too.

Your opinion helped, thanks. Sometimes you need to hear a different opinion.

-Helmut

[3D Anvil]

Are you looking at felt wheels for your Tormek, or for a buffer/grinder?  There's a huge difference between the two in terms of heat production.  A 2" wheel on the Tormek is no problem, but a 1" wheel on even a half-speed grinder heats up the blade VERY quickly.

[Ken S]

Good point, 3D.

Ken