DWC-200

[Ken S]

My DWC-200 arrived yesterday. Tormek offers two diamond wheels. The DWF-200 (Diamond Wheel Fine, 200mm diameter, 600 grit, is standard with the T2, or as an accessory. The DWC-200 (Diamond Wheel coarse, 200mm diameter, 320 grit is available as an accessory. 

Although they are designed primarily for use with the T2, they are an exact plug and play fit for the T4. They can also be used with the T7/8, although an extra spacer washer washer is necessary, and the 200 mm diameter does not allow full clearance. (They work as well as any 250mm diameter grinding wheel worn down to 200mm.

The DWC is decidedly faster cutting than the DWF. I was pleasantly surprised.

I prefer to do my testing using chisels. I find the single bevel easier to work with and definitely easier to see. I used a previously sharp 3/4" Irwin chisel, one of my sharpening chisels. I started by grinding a flat on the edge, more or less .25mm. This was decidedly "duller" than most chisels or knives. With the DWC in my T4, I sharpened the bevel to 25° with the chisel in the SE-77 jig. It required several minutes. I experienced no overheating at all. (I used the DWC dry.) The DWC left a distinct, but orderly scratch pattern.

I switched to the DWF. Its feel and sound sre considerably smoother than the DWC. It reduced the scratch pattern considerably.

Finally, I switched to the rubber wheel. I had expected it to only remove the burr. I was pleased to see that it also worked on the scratch pattern and did some polishing as sell. For the BESS users, I measured 150. I would not want to dubmit this tool for a journeyman exam, however for an initial quick sharpening job, it is not a bad score. Considering my limited time, I was pleased.

Initially, I just wanted to wear in the diamond wheel. It does not seem to need to wear in as much as CBN.

I have more testing to do. How does diamond compare with the SG? Dry or wet (with Honerite Gold)? Effect of very light pressure with final passes?

My first use reaction is that the DWC is a very useful grinding wheel for the T2 and beyond.

Stay tuned........

Ken

[Ken S]

Continuing my testing, I set out four different 3/4" Irwin Blue Chip chisels. All four received the basic grind with the DWC. The sound and feel felt the same with all four. I noticed no wear in, as I did with the CBN wheels. Both sound and feel seemed like real grinding, which was verified by checking the bevel.

I then finished one of the chisels with a very light touch. I made at least a dozen trips across the wheel slowly with very little pressure. I was surprised with the difference the light ending touch made. Stig first recommended the light finishing pressure to me. Thanks, Stig, it really makes a difference!

I finished the third chisel with the DWF 600 grit wheel. The feel and sound of the DWF are decidedly less coarse than the DWC. The finish with the DWF (with light pressure) was smoother than the DWC finished with the light touch, but not decidedly so.

The fourth chisel received the same treatment as the third chisel, plus having the burr removed with the rubber wheel. The burr on these chisels was different than I have seen before. It looked like thin foil, rather than a ragged edge. Spending more time with the DWF did not remove it. The rubber wheel removed it quickly, although I did not notice much polishing with the rubber wheel today.

My initial thoughts are that the DWF is designed for regular sharpening, before the knives become very dull. This would seem a logical choice for a Tormek kept ready for frequent use in a restaurant to maintain the knives in tip top condition. The rubber wheel seems more designed for rapid burr removal than for polishing. I do not feel any abrasive in the rubber wheel like I do with rust eraser blocks. I may be mistaken in this. The rubber wheel does remove the burr well and quickly.

Before closing this segment of the testing, I want to mention that used dry, I felt very little heat on the chisels near the grinding wheel. This was a pleasant surprise. I did notice some of the metal grinding clinging to the chisel at the edge. I have not noticed this when using the Tormek wet with a magnet in the water trough.

Further tests will include using the diamond wheels wet (with Honerite Gold) and comparing the diamond wheels with the SG.

So far, I am pleased with both of the diamond wheels, especially the DWC.

Stay tuned......

Ken

[cbwx34]

...
I then finished one of the chisels with a very light touch. I made at least a dozen trips across the wheel slowly with very little pressure. I was surprised with the difference the light ending touch made. Stig first recommended the light finishing pressure to me. Thanks, Stig, it really makes a difference!
...

Glad to see you're learning the advantage of finishing with light pressure.

Are you sharpening "edge leading" or "edge trailing"?

Had a thought... Tormek should consider adding a "Reviews" section to the forum?  Might prompt more posts like these.

Good review!  (Except for the chisel part.... kidding, kidding).

[Ken S]

CB,

As much as it pains me to say it, you ask some very pertinent questions.   

I believe ending with light passes is one of the techniques, like middle grits with the stone grader, which has generally remained in Sweden. I am not saying that Tormek keeps it confidential, only that they were developed after the handbook was written and have not been efficiently disseminated to the rank and file. I find it unfortunate that so many Tormek users are unaware of the potential of the fine machine they have purchased.

Edge leading or edge trailing? I usually prefer edge trailing, especially for knives. One disadvantage of experimenting with chisels is that the square edge jigs are not designed for edge trailing. (another problem to solve).

The problem with most reviews is that they are frozen. I remember one comparison review of an older Tormek in need of a new grindstone with a new clone. The clone won, largely due to a combination of lower cost and a few festures which looked good on paper. On the whole, I found the review well done and fair. My problem with it is that most readers did not see the follow up review later. The clone had a badly rusted shaft, and became unusable. Readers of only the original review would not realize that the winning candidate ended up in the trash bin. If the reviewer had replaced the grinding wheel and shaft (by that time, after 2006, all new Tormek shafts have been stainless steel), his venerable SuperGrind would still be working very well.

Much more can be said about reviews.

Ken

[cbwx34]

CB,

As much as it pains me to say it, you ask some very pertinent questions.   

I believe ending with light passes is one of the techniques, like middle grits with the stone grader, which has generally remained in Sweden. I am not saying that Tormek keeps it confidential, only that they were developed after the handbook was written and have not been efficiently disseminated to the rank and file. I find it unfortunate that so many Tormek users are unaware of the potential of the fine machine they have purchased.

Edge leading or edge trailing? I usually prefer edge trailing, especially for knives. One disadvantage of experimenting with chisels is that the square edge jigs are not designed for edge trailing. (another problem to solve).

The problem with most reviews is that they are frozen. I remember one comparison review of an older Tormek in need of a new grindstone with a new clone. The clone won, largely due to a combination of lower cost and a few festures which looked good on paper. On the whole, I found the review well done and fair. My problem with it is that most readers did not see the follow up review later. The clone had a badly rusted shaft, and became unusable. Readers of only the original review would not realize that the winning candidate ended up in the trash bin. If the reviewer had replaced the grinding wheel and shaft (by that time, after 2006, all new Tormek shafts have been stainless steel), his venerable SuperGrind would still be working very well.

Much more can be said about reviews.

Ken

  I actually looked up chisel sharpening before asking which direction... I was fooled by them showing the machine set up in both directions at the start of the instructions.   (Guess it's there just to reference what they're talking about).

I wondered, because a "thin foil" burr like you described... I usually see on "edge trailing" sharpening.  (After the last few months, I've returned to "edge leading" on knives... but that's probably a topic for another thread).

Be interested in your comparison/conclusions vs. the SG wheel... (and maybe the SB?)

BTW, I've been keeping my eye on getting some "Honerite Gold" noticed today that the price went up nearly 50%! on a bottle...   

[Ken S]

CB,

I just checked Advanced Machinery's website. AM's prices are usually the same as Tormek list prices. The link is for Honerite Gold. The price is $29.95 US

https://www.advmachinery.com/search?q=honerite+gold

Is that what you found?

The T4 or T8 user definitely has a cost advantage here. The T7 water trough requires more water. (The T8 water trough has a rounded bottom; the T7 or SuperGrind water trough has a flat bottom.)

I will reaxamine my square edge jigs to see if they might work in either direction.

Yes, I plan to compare the DWC (both wet and dry) with the SG and SB wheels. I am slow, but I do try to be thorough.

Ken

[cbwx34]

CB,

I just checked Advanced Machinery's website. AM's prices are usually the same as Tormek list prices. The link is for Honerite Gold. The price is $29.95 US

https://www.advmachinery.com/search?q=honerite+gold

Is that what you found?

The T4 or T8 user definitely has a cost advantage here. The T7 water trough requires more water. (The T8 water trough has a rounded bottom; the T7 or SuperGrind water trough has a flat bottom.)

I will reaxamine my square edge jigs to see if they might work in either direction.

Yes, I plan to compare the DWC (both wet and dry) with the SG and SB wheels. I am slow, but I do try to be thorough.

Ken

No, that's a better price.  Wonder why it doesn't come up in an internet search?

Thanks!

p.s.  I'm sure you're right about the square edge jig... I think the picture is just there for reference.

[Ken S]

All I will say about pricing is caveat emptor (Latin for let the buyer beware).

Ken

[AKMike]

After using my CBN wheel with Honerite Gold, I save the used water for another day. The water is clean since there is no grinding wheel dust, and the metal particles are stuck to the magnet. I expect a bottle of Honerite to last a long time.

Mike

[Ken S]

My DWC-200 testing was interrupted by a two day stay in the hospital for an 8mm kidney stone removal. For those who do not live in Metricland, that's 5/16" or about the size of 00 buckshot.

I spent two days in a hospital bed with no access to any electronics or Internet. It gave me an opportunity to reflect on a number of forum related issues.

Starting with the DWC-200 testing: I do not know how directly testing with chisels correlates with sharpening knives. My gut feeling tells me that knives and chisels are similar, but not the same. I believe the similarities are enough to warrent inclusion in a more comprehensive test, but not enough on their own to be considered conclusive.

The steels are different. Most chisels are O1. Modern knives lean more toward stainless steel or more exotic alloys.

The bevel is thicker with a chisel.

That stated, I do note several differences between the DWC-200, DWF-200, and SG-200. Once I return to testing, I will include the SB-250 and a comparison of the DWC-200 and DWF-200 used wet and dry.

At this point, I have worked with five chisels and one knife with the DWC-200. I have not noticed any breaking in starting with very coarse and settling in to the stated grit.. I did notice this with a new CBN wheel.

The DWC-200 at 320 grit seems more aggressive (at least when used dry) than the SG-200 graded coarse with the stone grader. The SG-200 gives me the sound and feel of grinding, however, it is more muted than the DWC-200.

At this point, I would say that initial testing indicates that the 320 grit DWC-200 may cut more aggressively than the 220 grit SG-200. I would assume that the SG-200 and SG-250 are very similar. I will repeat this test several times.

These repeat tests will include using different stone graders.. For this test, I used the stone grader for longer than recommended time to make sure the wheel was made fully coarse.

The SG-200 produced a visually smoother grind than the DWC-200. When I finished with eight cycles of a very light touch, the results with the DWC-200 were considerably smoother than when finished with a regular touch, however, the light touch DWC-200 was not as smooth as the SG-200.

The light touch DWC-200 was also not as smooth as the DWF-200, as one would expect. However, the difference was not that great. For most kitchen knives and chisel applications, I would be tempted to forego the DWF-200, especially if the final step was the leather honing wheel.

The rubber honing wheel quickly removes the foil burr of the DWC-200.

I consider this test ongoing and certainly not conclusive. That stated, I am wondering if a T4 with a DWC-200 might be a very servicable one wheel sharpening rig. It could be used when wet grinding was inconvenient. and when using the stone grader was not desirable. It would provide the compact size and weight of a T2 or T4 with the flexibility of the T7/8. This thought is in the very early stages.

Tormek does not presently offer either the DWF or DWC in the 250mm diameter size. I have no information to indicate if this is even being considered.

The sharpest chisels I have produced have been by using the traditional Tormek three step method: SG coarse; SG fine; and leather honing wheel.

Chisels sharpened with a CBN wheel and the leather honing wheel were reasonably close, but definitely second place. Chisels sharpened with the DWC, DWF, and rubber wheel were also in the second place region.

I will try the DWC light touch with leather honing wheel and the DWC light touch plus the DWF and the leather honing wheel for comparison.

I found the metal grindings clinging to the chisel edges to be annoying. This does not happen with wet grinding with the SG-200. I do not believe it will happen with the DWC used wet with Honerite Gold.

I believe using the strong magnet of a retrieval tool (wrapped in plastic wrap for easy cleanup) will quickly remove the annoying grindings.

I have not used my CBN wheels in a while . I remember only minimal heating when using them dry. The diamond wheels seem to produce even less heat when used used dry.

I believe the T2 works very well for its intended use and users, restaurants and chefs who want to maintain their knives in top condition with a minimum of training or time. I also believe that a sharpener is best served with the flexibility of a conventional Tormek. with "conventional Tormek, I would certainly consider a T4 as well as the larger T7 or T8.

Ken

[cbwx34]

My DWC-200 testing was interrupted by a two day stay in the hospital for an 8mm kidney stone removal. For those who do not live in Metricland, that's 5/16" or about the size of 00 buckshot.

I'm guessing to you it felt about the size of an electrified basketball.    Sorry to hear, hope it's all better.

Just a few comments on your post...

Starting with the DWC-200 testing: I do not know how directly testing with chisels correlates with sharpening knives. My gut feeling tells me that knives and chisels are similar, but not the same. I believe the similarities are enough to warrent inclusion in a more comprehensive test, but not enough on their own to be considered conclusive.

Another difference between knives and chisels will be the amount of pressure at the contact point, which may influence the results you're seeing. 

The steels are different. Most chisels are O1. Modern knives lean more toward stainless steel or more exotic alloys.

The bevel is thicker with a chisel.

That stated, I do note several differences between the DWC-200, DWF-200, and SG-200. Once I return to testing, I will include the SB-250 and a comparison of the DWC-200 and DWF-200 used wet and dry.

At this point, I have worked with five chisels and one knife with the DWC-200. I have not noticed any breaking in starting with very coarse and settling in to the stated grit.. I did notice this with a new CBN wheel.

The DWC-200 at 320 grit seems more aggressive (at least when used dry) than the SG-200 graded coarse with the stone grader. The SG-200 gives me the sound and feel of grinding, however, it is more muted than the DWC-200.

At this point, I would say that initial testing indicates that the 320 grit DWC-200 may cut more aggressively than the 220 grit SG-200. I would assume that the SG-200 and SG-250 are very similar. I will repeat this test several times.

It doesn't surprise me that the DWC at 320g is more aggressive than the SG at 220g... that's typical of diamond stones in general.

These repeat tests will include using different stone graders.. For this test, I used the stone grader for longer than recommended time to make sure the wheel was made fully coarse.

The SG-200 produced a visually smoother grind than the DWC-200. When I finished with eight cycles of a very light touch, the results with the DWC-200 were considerably smoother than when finished with a regular touch, however, the light touch DWC-200 was not as smooth as the SG-200.

The light touch DWC-200 was also not as smooth as the DWF-200, as one would expect. However, the difference was not that great. For most kitchen knives and chisel applications, I would be tempted to forego the DWF-200, especially if the final step was the leather honing wheel.

I would consider the opposite... forego the DWC and use the DWF for sharpening... saving the DWC for reprofiling/repairs/etc.

The rubber honing wheel quickly removes the foil burr of the DWC-200.

I consider this test ongoing and certainly not conclusive. That stated, I am wondering if a T4 with a DWC-200 might be a very servicable one wheel sharpening rig. It could be used when wet grinding was inconvenient. and when using the stone grader was not desirable. It would provide the compact size and weight of a T2 or T4 with the flexibility of the T7/8. This thought is in the very early stages.

I think it's a good thought.

Tormek does not presently offer either the DWF or DWC in the 250mm diameter size. I have no information to indicate if this is even being considered.

The sharpest chisels I have produced have been by using the traditional Tormek three step method: SG coarse; SG fine; and leather honing wheel.

Chisels sharpened with a CBN wheel and the leather honing wheel were reasonably close, but definitely second place. Chisels sharpened with the DWC, DWF, and rubber wheel were also in the second place region.

I will try the DWC light touch with leather honing wheel and the DWC light touch plus the DWF and the leather honing wheel for comparison.

I found the metal grindings clinging to the chisel edges to be annoying. This does not happen with wet grinding with the SG-200. I do not believe it will happen with the DWC used wet with Honerite Gold.

I believe using the strong magnet of a retrieval tool (wrapped in plastic wrap for easy cleanup) will quickly remove the annoying grindings.

One thing you might try... I found that a damp paper towel occasionally held lightly against the diamond stone, cleaned off a lot of the metal dust, in just a few seconds. (Also, make sure your magnet doesn't 'jump' onto the diamond wheel...)

I have not used my CBN wheels in a while . I remember only minimal heating when using them dry. The diamond wheels seem to produce even less heat when used used dry.

I believe the T2 works very well for its intended use and users, restaurants and chefs who want to maintain their knives in top condition with a minimum of training or time. I also believe that a sharpener is best served with the flexibility of a conventional Tormek. with "conventional Tormek, I would certainly consider a T4 as well as the larger T7 or T8.

Good review!

Ken

[Ken S]

CB,

Thanks for your good wishes and good comments.

Interesting thought about the difference in pressure with chisels and knives.

I think your observation about foregoing the DWC and using the DWF for sharpening was the original Tormek intention. The DWC works well for more aggressive repairs. Have you had a chance to do more sharpening with your DWF? One of the real benefits of a forum is the having more than one voice. When I did my first review, the T4, I wanted to get some accurate information onto the forum about it. None of us had even seen a T4. I never intended to be the only reviewer.  We all benefit from different views.

Ken

[RickKrung]

My DWC-200 testing was interrupted by a two day stay in the hospital for an 8mm kidney stone removal. For those who do not live in Metricland, that's 5/16" or about the size of 00 buckshot.

I spent two days in a hospital bed with no access to any electronics or Internet. It gave me an opportunity to reflect on a number of forum related issues.
...snip...

Ken

OOOW!  Sorry to hear it happened. Glad you are through it.  I went through similar 28 years ago.  My first and only experience with Morphine.  Did the trick.  I was only in overnight.  I have heard that is the closest a man will come to experiencing the pain associated with childbirth. 

Rick

[Ken S]

Rick,

I agree about the Morphine. I think the real reason for the second night with me was that the first day was Sunday. I can understand that. I want the doctor to be well rested before poking around in my innerds.

Ken

[cbwx34]

...
I think your observation about foregoing the DWC and using the DWF for sharpening was the original Tormek intention. The DWC works well for more aggressive repairs. Have you had a chance to do more sharpening with your DWF? One of the real benefits of a forum is the having more than one voice. When I did my first review, the T4, I wanted to get some accurate information onto the forum about it. None of us had even seen a T4. I never intended to be the only reviewer.  We all benefit from different views.

Ken

Oops... missed this.

I have done a bit more sharpening on it... but haven't really documented it for a review.  (I probably said enough earlier....).