Tilted collar of knife jig

[RickKrung]

This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs... is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.

Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock a f*ck. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.

Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:
...
You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.

And i do not apologize for my language this time.

Lightweight? 

If only a better alternative was available...



... in all seriousness, Rick's mod, while on the surface you'd think is less accurate, since it's a smaller surface on the USB... IMO is a better route.  And attaching the clamp to the jig with the Stop Collar (my mod I guess), is very accurate, the only downside being it's looking like knives should be under 8", (and maybe less depending on shape).

It's pretty easy to add a "locking screw" like the old model had... I just drilled a hole slightly smaller and used the screw itself to 'tap' the plastic collar.  Solve part of the problem anyway.  (Or adding tape as was suggested earlier, might straighten it a bit, and stop it from turning).

1 step forward... 

p.s.  I'm finding it interesting, (and a bit mind boggling), that I seem to be able to use your Angle Calculator, even with the modified jigs.  (I'm trying to figure out why...). 

I'm not sure where to chime in.  First, I empathize with Wootz's complaints about how the new stop/O-Ring setup does not hold position.  I solved that much like CB, but in my case, I drilled and tapped two holes in the body of the stop, so thumb screws can be placed to avoid crushing the O-ring.  It is a partial fix, that should not have had to have happened. 

Two holes drilled and tapped:


Three jigs modified with two drilled and tapped holes:


As for using Wootz's angle calculator with CB's or my mods, is it not just a matter of determining the projection length?  More complicated in the case of CB's as I'm not sure how to measure it.  There is also the matter of the shaft of the jig not contacting the USB, which would seem to me to change the angle. 

But, in the case of my Pin Pivot Collar, it is measured exactly the same as with the stock collar, directly from the knife edge to the front surface of one of the (vertical) pins. 

I am not using my Pin Pivot Collar at the moment.  I am learning how to use the stock collar and how to lift the knife as the curve climbs the stone to maintain the bevel angle and width.  This is a beef I have with provided instructional info (manual and videos) because as far as I can tell, the need for lifting the blade along the curved tip is shown in the videos, but is never mentioned, let along explained why it is important. (I believe the lack of info on the need to lift is why I botched one of my Leatherman Wave blades, that I have since fixed with lifting) (I did a word search in the downloaded PDF version of the Tormek manual and the work "lift" does not occur anywhere in the knife sharpening section.  The only places it occurs is in other jigs regarding changing positions or orientation.)

I do not want for Wootz's complaint(s) to get lost in talking about how to fix the jigs by adding screws or using alternative stops.

I think the design flaw issues he raises need to be addressed by Tormek. 

Rick

[cbwx34]

As for using Wootz's angle calculator with CB's or my mods, is it not just a matter of determining the projection length?  More complicated in the case of CB's as I'm not sure how to measure it.  There is also the matter of the shaft of the jig not contacting the USB, which would seem to me to change the angle. 

But, in the case of my Pin Pivot Collar, it is measured exactly the same as with the stock collar, directly from the knife edge to the front surface of one of the (vertical) pins. 

You're right... I should have clarified... I'm able to use it, even with the Stop Collar jigs that slide onto the USB (like the one in the picture, or the one on the KME clamp I modded).  On your setup... it works the same as the regular collar.

I am not using my Pin Pivot Collar at the moment.  I am learning how to use the stock collar and how to lift the knife as the curve climbs the stone to maintain the bevel angle and width.  This is a beef I have with provided instructional info (manual and videos) because as far as I can tell, the need for lifting the blade along the curved tip is shown in the videos, but is never mentioned, let along explained why it is important. (I believe the lack of info on the need to lift is why I botched one of my Leatherman Wave blades, that I have since fixed with lifting) (I did a word search in the downloaded PDF version of the Tormek manual and the work "lift" does not occur anywhere in the knife sharpening section.  The only places it occurs is in other jigs regarding changing positions or orientation.)

I do not want for Wootz's complaint(s) to get lost in talking about how to fix the jigs by adding screws or using alternative stops.

I think the design flaw issues he raises need to be addressed by Tormek. 

Rick

The whole point of modding the collar, is to avoid lifting the handle to follow the curve (if by that you mean lifting without rotating the knife?).  It works, but not the best way (my opinion of course).  (But maybe a topic for another thread). 

I agree about the design flaw issue... but something tells me a fix may be a long time coming? 

[wootz]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

[RickKrung]

...snip...
I'm not sure where to chime in.  First, I empathize with Wootz's complaints about how the new stop/O-Ring setup does not hold position.  I solved that much like CB, but in my case, I drilled and tapped two holes in the body of the stop, so thumb screws can be placed to avoid crushing the O-ring.  It is a partial fix, that should not have had to have happened. 

Two holes drilled and tapped:

...snip...

Rick

Interesting how, when you think you know what you are doing, or, if you don't even think that and just do something that messes with someone else's carefully engineered/designed tool/instrument and you end up messing it up somehow. 

Case in Point: The two drilled and tapped holes I put in the SVM adjustable collar bodies.  Great idea, it seemed.  Still seems that way at one level, except, I was noticing that the stop was now difficult to get past the O-ring at a certain point, and the O-rings were getting torn up and dragged down the threads some when the stop was rotated off the threads. 

Well, it turns out that putting in that forward hole (closest to the wide plastic disc) disrupted the integrity of the internal diameter in that area.  Now, as the hole rotates over the O-ring, the rubber has somewhere to go other than under uniform compression.  Up it pops into the threaded hole and rides there as the stop is rotated.  The Stop doesn't really want to move because of that, and when it does, it tears up the O-ring.


I did find that screwing the knob in to about where the screw head is even with the ID, the O-ring is compressed back into compliance and the stop will thread on or off without further incident.  Works but it is a bother and if forgotten enough, it will ruin the O-ring. 

So...  folks...  Don't do this at home...   At least for that forward hole.  I don't know if the rear one would ever come into play or not, if the stop is ever rotated that far forward.  Don't know. 

As an alternative, I have in mind making something like the Lee Valley Veritas Micro-Adjust Marking Gauge, where there is a movable clamp that closes around the shaft (smooth, no threads) and has a threaded adjusting ring that moves the head and then the head is secured with a thumb screw once in the proper location.  Much too complex for a Tormek production option, but definitely something I could do in my shop.  I'm thinking something like the locking clamp collar from the Pin Pivot Clamp Collar, rather than a "collet" like clamp as on the Veritas gauge. 
http://www.leevalley.com/us/gifts/page.aspx?p=49133&cat=53219&ap=9

BTW, I have one of these and they work great, but is probably overkill for most woodworkers.  I have two others of the standard variety, with just the thumb screw, which I use for setting the SVM jig projection and the USB height based on Wootz's applet calculations.  I've modified each, in different ways to be more suitable for these tasks, but that should go in a different (its own) thread. 

Rick

[Sharpco]

This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.

Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock a f*ck. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.

Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:


You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.

And i do not apologize for my language this time.

That's what I'm talking about.

I have two SVM-45 and these all have the same problem.

I also ordered three of new SVM-45 and confirmed that they had the same problem, so I sent them back.

I am very curious how Tomak will explain the case.

Wootz, what does "lightweight SVM-45" mean? SVM-45 is not lightweight.

[Sharpco]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

I can fully understand you. I found the same problem on all five SVM-45s, but I could not get enough empathy from this forum. But now I am glad that the seriousness of this problem is known through you.

[Stickan]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig

[Ken S]

Problems can happen with any company. I evaluate a company by how it handles problems. I have known of several problems with Tormek. Some of these are real product problems; some are operator. In every case, Tormek has delivered outstanding service. I have never known Tormek to try to dodge a problem

Ken

Post edited by poster to eliminate confusion.

[Sharpco]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig

Hello. Stig.

I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.

[Ken S]

I removed my reply to avoid confusion. (mistaken information).

Ken

[Stickan]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig

Hello. Stig.

I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.

Hi,
Sometimes it takes time to answer some questions. This was one.
As usual, I am going to answer the honest way.
To start with, you are wrong.
We produce thousands of the SVM-45 every year. We have less issues with this model in zink than the previous one in aluminum. 2018, so far, I have a handful of issues, one was operator problems. And this might be jigs that was purchased last year or even 2016. And some jigs that I have got sent to Sweden for inspection had traces of damage after they have been dropped to the floor, most likely from the user. Which sadly, we might find out after we replace a jig.

We stopped making the adjustable handle with a screw to lock it. The treads in the nylon got worn out as most users used to much force when they tightened it. The solution with the o-ring made even the adjustment easier.

Sadly, whatever I answer, it sounds like an defensive speech. If someone has an issue, contacting us on support@tormek.se is easier and faster to get help than to post things here. Luckily, Ken S does inform me when I need to check the Forum If I have been absent for a while.

Sharpco, I will send an email to our Korean importer to help you so you get jigs that you can accept. We don't want unhappy customers.

Sincerely,
Stig

[cbwx34]

I removed my reply to avoid confusion. (mistaken information).

Ken

I thought your weighing them was a good idea?

I knew "lightweight" (in wootz post) had to be a clue...

BTW, mine weighed the same as yours.... I thought you were on to something here.... at least confirm or not whether it shows the difference?

[Ken S]

CB,

I thought so, too. However, Stig sent me an email requesting that I delete the reply as it was not the issue and it would cause confusion. I know and respect Stig enough to know that his request was honest.

Due to the shipping distances involved, fully resolving this may take some time. I have no doubt that it will be resolved.

Ken

[tomo2090]

Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.

I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.

I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.

Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig

Hello. Stig.

I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.

Hi,
Sometimes it takes time to answer some questions. This was one.
As usual, I am going to answer the honest way.
To start with, you are wrong.
We produce thousands of the SVM-45 every year. We have less issues with this model in zink than the previous one in aluminum. 2018, so far, I have a handful of issues, one was operator problems. And this might be jigs that was purchased last year or even 2016. And some jigs that I have got sent to Sweden for inspection had traces of damage after they have been dropped to the floor, most likely from the user. Which sadly, we might find out after we replace a jig.

We stopped making the adjustable handle with a screw to lock it. The treads in the nylon got worn out as most users used to much force when they tightened it. The solution with the o-ring made even the adjustment easier.

Sadly, whatever I answer, it sounds like an defensive speech. If someone has an issue, contacting us on support@tormek.se is easier and faster to get help than to post things here. Luckily, Ken S does inform me when I need to check the Forum If I have been absent for a while.

Sharpco, I will send an email to our Korean importer to help you so you get jigs that you can accept. We don't want unhappy customers.

Sincerely,
Stig

This is becoming a full time job for you Stig!

This is my take... Yes there is a little play in the position of the black adjustment knob on the SVM-45 held somewhat securely by the internal o-ring, however i haven't found that minor resulting movement to change much on the bevel and the vast majority of my knives are large scandi bevels so I'd likly notice a difference before those who sharpen small secondary bevel knives - not to mention I am ridiculously obsessive and a perfectionist. I just try to keep things centered...
The beauty without having a locking screw that holds the black adjustment knob in place is that it can be quickly adjusted back and forth, which otherwise would need to be unscrewed to loosen then adjust the jig, then re tightened.
When using both the SVM-45 and 00 together, coupled with a hand made knife, you can guarantee that the minor imperfections of the knife being handmade will affect the bevel position on the stone in relation to it being held in the jig. Adjusting that black knob is essential, it's quick, easy and efficient as it is. I advise anyone struggling with this set up to watch how the sharpeners at the Dalah horse co. (demo on youtube) sharpen their tools adjusting that black knob!

I like the sound of the duct tape idea which may help remove the slop!

As I have mentioned in my other post ( I know I have only posted once before this!) the tormek and it's jigs (of course I can only comment on the ones I have used) work beautifully, sadly it's us, the user that let the machine down.
The guides that you use with the Tormek are exactly that, guides. There is still skill involved on behalf of the user!

As stated before, a learner driver wouldn't blame a car for not driving properly, it will drive, but you have to practice how to do it - it will drive beautifully if you drive it beautifully. Like anything the Tormek has a learning curve.

It looks like this discussion is getting a little heated, which is a shame and is one of the reasons I have stayed away from forums and online groups up until someone asked me via instagram to share my thoughts. Just my 2cents on this topic.

Warm regards,

Tom.

[Ken S]

Tom,

This topic is a little heated, which is very rare for this forum. We are a group of civil, helpful people who take sharpening very seriously. I believe you have already met Stig, the head of Tormek support. This situation with the knife jig will be resolved. I have complete confidence that oir ship will soon be restored to an even keel. We have no prima donnas here; we work as a team to solve problems.

Ken