Newbie Question - SG250 and SJ250

[Dotian]

Hi All
I've just purchased the T8 together with the SJ250 waterstone. I've just retired here in the UK and have taken up woodworking to occupy my newly found spare time. So, I will be using the T8 to sharpen my chisels and plane irons.
Before  I get started I have a simple question that I'm sure this forum will be able to answer. Once I have used the T8 I guess it is good practice to empty out and clean the water tray. After I have done that and refilled it do you recommend I raise the tray so that the waterstone is back in the water or to leave the tray lowered? Also with regard to  the SJ-250 waterstone, what is the best way to store this when it is not on the T8?
Any advice regarding using the waterstones much appreciated together with any other pearls of wisdom regarding using the T8 would also be gratefully received.

[grepper]

Welcome to the forum!

After you are finished using the machine, clean/empty the tray.  Don't leave the wheel sitting in water when the machine is not in use.  Several hours probably would not make much difference, but when you are done for the day, clean/empty the tray and let the wheel dry out.  Refill the tray when you are going to use the machine again.

Hanging the wheel on a wood dowel is good way to store it. 

I know from personal experience the tendency to over think this stuff.  The T8 is a tough, built to last piece of equipment that will stand up to every day shop use.  For the most part, just treat it with respect just like you would with any other piece of quality equipment and use common sense.  You'll do fine! 

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Dotian.

Yes, you should dump and clean your water trough at the end of every session. The trough comes off easily if you gently pull the bottom and let the trough pivot off. I suggest you practice a bit with an empty trough and no grinding wheel attached.

I would leave the trough enpty until starting the next session. Do not try to store wheels in original cardboards boxes unless thoroughly dry. (I speak from personal experience on this.)

I store my grinding wheels two ways. Using long bolts, washers, a nylon spacer, and nuts costs only a few dollars. I fastened these homemade hooks onto the corner of a sturdy metal set of shelves. I ground down the bolt heads to allow the 12mm bore of the grinding wheels to slide over.

This way works as well as the second way, using the side hooks of my Tormek Work Station. The work station looks fancier, but costs $700. Your choice.

Be sure to read the first tips and techniques topic. (at least the first post, the whole thing if you have a leisurely coffee or tea break.)

Enjoy your new Tormek and do keep us posted.

Ken

[Dotian]

Hi grepper, Ken S
Many thanks for your replies both of which are most helpful. Your last comment grepper regarding not overthinking the T8 is very astute since I fear I have been guilty of doing just that. I think the best way forward is to grab a couple of old chisels and work through the sharpening process from using the AngleMaster to set up the edge angle and the Square Edge Jig. By having the SJ 250 I can work through the three grit grades to arrive, hopefully at a super sharp edge.
Another question if I may - having the SJ 250 removes the need to use the Leather Honing Wheel according to Tormek so how would you guys recommend I remove the burrs from the back of the chisels/plane irons?
Finally my last question- is it necessary to use the Truing Tool on both grindstones before first using them or should they be good to go straight out of the box?
Many thanks again for your "words of wisdom" 

[RichColvin]

Dorian,

Many years ago, I didn't remove it from the machine or even empty the water trough.  That was a mistake and I ended up replacing the shaft as a result (it was the older one that is not stainless steel like the new ones).

Now, I pull the grinding stone off the machine and store it upright to dry completely.  I hang mine from a ½" screw which I use as a peg.

I recommend this as it does two things :  it lets the machine and all that area really dry out, and it allows the stone to dry out also.

I have found that it takes longer for the SG stone to get up to speed now though as it has to get saturated with water, and that takes 2 or 3 minutes.  But, not a huge deal.

Good luck,
Rich

[Dotian]

Hi Rich
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll certainly take your advice- being retired what's an extra 2/3 minutes!

[Ken S]

Dotian,

My standard practice answer would have been to recommend truing the grinding wheel before using it. This is still good grinding practice. However, I just trued a new SG-250. I was surprised how little needed to be removed. With that in mind, I am leaning toward recommending that you true the new wheel relatively early, but get a feel for the machine first. Work with your practice chisels first. You will quickly get a feel for the grinding by touch and sound. At that point, when you have some leisure time, try using your truing tool with very light cuts. (start with just touching the highest spots and advance half a number on the microadjust). Eventually, soon, you will feel more confident.

Tormek recommends using the leather honing wheel is unnecessary when using the SJ-250. The SJ is really a polishing wheel. Do not skip the step of grading the SG fine with the stone grader. This is another set of skills best mastered initially with the 3/4" sharpening chisels. The 3/4" chisel is an ideal learning tool. Single straight bevel, large enough bevel to be easily observed.

I suggest that initially you not get too hyper if your ground chisel is not dead square. Go for sharp. Square will follow. Incidentally, if you work carefully and deliberately, you will find the Tormek can be a very efficient machine.

Enjoy the learning curve.

Ken

[grepper]

I am a firm believer in deburring.  Any remaining burr on an edge is the enemy of sharpness because it will either get mashed down and cover the edge or fold over to one side.  Either way it "hides" the true sharp edge of the blade.

If you do nothing else, just strop about 20 times with firm pressure on the blue jean material on your thigh.  This can be very effective.  No leather or compound needed.  It's the stropping that's important because it bends the remaining burr back and forth until it fatigues and breaks off exposing the solid sharpened edge.  A burr is a weak pile of crap on the edge of a sharpened blade.  You really want to get rid of it.

If you get a sharpness tester you can actually prove this. Add a microscope and you see it too.  Here's a test I did:
http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=40

So, and this is just IMHO, even if the final abrasive used in the sharpening process is very fine, I'd still at least give it a quick stropping on my blue jeans.  Try it!  You might be pleasantly surprised that you can actually feel the difference with you fingers even if you don't have a sharpness tester.

[Dotian]

Hi Ken, grepper
Many thanks for your advice and recommendations which I've taken on board.
In particular grepper I agree entirely with the importance of deburring - hence my question as to how to accomplish it using the T8 setup. Upto now I have sharpened my chisels and plane blades by hand using diamond stones followed by a strop so it seems that with the T8 I will cycle through the three grits followed by using my strop to remove the burrs.
I didn't know that a sharpness tester existed- any info you can give me grepper would of great interest.
Once again many thanks for imparting your experience.

[grepper]

Well, you have a Tormek with a honing wheel.  Even if the SJ does not kick up much of a burr, I'd just go ahead and use it.  But that's just me, I figure at the very least it can't hurt.

I use a PT50B from Edge On Up.  www.edgeonup.com  Their testers have been discussed at length here.  If you search around you can find a bunch of threads about sharpness testing and testers.

[Dotian]

Thanks grepper, I'll give it a go. I don't think Edge On Up products are available here in the UK.

[Jan]

The Edge On Up Edge Sharpness Testers are available via Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Up-Sharpness-Tester/dp/B06X6GL4XS/ref=pd_sbs_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06X6GL4XS&pd_rd_r=F32ZPHPB0FRXZRG3HD89&pd_rd_w=9H4sn&pd_rd_wg=taLy5&psc=1&refRID=F32ZPHPB0FRXZRG3HD89

Jan

[Ken S]

I have found the Edge on Up testers a valuable aid in using the Tormek. I have three older models. My "go to" tester is the PT-50, the model before the PT-50B shown in the link. If I was purchasing one today, it would be that PT-50B. The manufacturer's website, www.edgeonup.com  , has several very informative videos. They are also quite good about answering questions.

Ken

[Dotian]

Hi Jan, Ken
Thanks for the info - however I live in England and my research indicates that the Edge on Up testers are not available here to buy.