Problem with new SB250 - Looking for comparison info

[OnealWoodworking]

I recently went to use my new SB250 stone and want to ask a few questions about the 'out of the box' trueness that you guys see with your new stones.

When looking at the front of my Tormek while the stone is spinning it is dead flat on the top and right side surfaces. Flat enough that it is not worth getting out any tools to measure runout... 

The left side surface of the stone is jacked beyond belief and is going to need a lot of work to make true. It has a VERY noticeable wobble on that side that makes using it for flattening darn near impossible as it is.

My factory Tormek stone was (and is) perfect on ALL sides which leads me to think that this SB250 is not 'normal' for a new and 'out of the box' Tormek stone.

FWIW - I do know how to properly change stones and did remove and reinstall a few times whilst checking for errors along the way... This is not an improper installation issue. The left side of the stone is simply not even close to being true as you get closer to the outside edge of it. The center must be right as rotating the stone 180deg changes nothing - The left side still wobbles like hell towards the outside (away from the center) while the entire right side of the stone rotates perfectly flat to the eye no matter how the stone is turned on the shaft... Right side is true to the point that it does not 'need' any sort of measuring or trueing at all no matter what gets rotated... Smooth as glass it is. 

If I take measurements on the left side of the stone where it comes closest to the frame of the machine as it turns I get measurements like this:






I used simple feeler gauges between the stone and the frame of the machine on that left side to show what is obvious to the eye as the wheel turns while in use. Thickness of feeler gauges was measured with a good micrometer.


Can you guys share some experience here and offer any advice or experience pertaining to how you go about 'trueing' the sides of your stones?

What do YOU see when first using a NEW Tormek stone as far as trueness is concerned?


This particular stone will be closer to 1 and 15/16 (or less) when it is 'correct'. As it sits now it is 2" at the widest (and a shy 1 and 15/16" at the min) but still needs a good bit removed from the left to be correct...

My factory stone is perfect and runs true (to the eye and feel) everywhere. Not worth measuring any runout on it at all in my opinion. This SB250 cost me more than the factory stone would have and runs warped on one side...

[Ken S]

I would contact your national importer or Tormek and ask for a replacement stone. Tormek wants satisfied customers and you should not have to deal with a problem stone right out of the box. You can locate your national importer from the list of dealers on tormek.com. The email for support for Tormek in Sweden is support.tormek.se.  Stig is in charge of the department; you should receive a prompt reply.

Ken

[OnealWoodworking]

I would contact your national importer or Tormek and ask for a replacement stone. Tormek wants satisfied customers and you should not have to deal with a problem stone right out of the box. You can locate your national importer from the list of dealers on tormek.com. The email for support for Tormek in Sweden is support.tormek.se.  Stig is in charge of the department; you should receive a prompt reply.

Ken

That will not help me learn how to 'true' the sides of my stones...

Also wont help me learn what is considered 'normal' runout on the Tormek stones...

I refuse to believe that I am alone here in using the 'sides' of my Tormek stones.

My hope was to learn how to true up what I HAVE and keep on moving forward and NOT to be a pain on someones CS department.

[Ken S]

Point well taken. I suggest you contact support.tormek.se and ask both what is the tolerance and what they suggest to true the side (inside) of your wheel.

I will try to check my SB wheel within a day and report.

Ken

[Ken S]

I looked at my SB-250 on the T7. Mine seems to be true both on the inner and outer surfaces.

I recently trued my Norton 3x wheel I use on the Tormek. I had allowed a groove to form around 1/16" (2mm) deep. (no excuses) I used a grinding wheel dressing stick. It did a very adequate job. It is 6" long, x 1" x 1" (150mmx25mmx25mm) and resembles a gray cinderblock. I believe a Norton Norbide stick might have done a better job, but I already had the dressing stick.

I don't know if the dressing stick is hard enough to work with the SB wheel. You could set the dressing stick on the housing with or without the universal support pulled in close for added support. I would put some tape down first to protect the paint on the housing and the universal support chrome. Such lightly at first to see how it cuts.

A second possibility would be to use a diamond T dresser.

I have not tried either of these on the SB, but both work with the Norton wheels. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Ken

[stevebot]

I do not know of any way to true the inside side, but you can true the outside with your truing tool.  Jet makes a right angle universal support adapter and you can use it to run the TT on the outside of the wheel.

[Ken S]

Steve,

Your response piqued my curiosity. An online search produced the Jet SWGJ-1 (side wheel grinding jig). It is listed for sale on Amazon. Be sure to read the reviews. Two of the three reviews are quite negative (one and two stars). The one guy who liked it used it on another grinder, which I don't think is even made any longer.

I unsuccessfully tried to find the Jet wet grinder for sale. Even the Jet website does not list it. It appears to be out of production. I won't bash a competitor's product. I suggest members read the reviews and make up their own minds. Bill Hylton wrote an honest review.

As an alternative, I suggest looking at a topic posted on this forum June 1, 2015, "Tool rest for the side of the grinding wheel". The topic includes photos. While very simple, it could be effective if methodically used with either the dressing stick or the diamond T. Check your progress often.

I still think my idea for the inside face would work. I also would not accept a new wheel which was that far out of true. The CS department is employed to handle customer service. I would be polite and helpful and let them do their jobs.

Ken

[jeffs55]

I do not know of any way to true the inside side, but you can true the outside with your truing tool.  Jet makes a right angle universal support adapter and you can use it to run the TT on the outside of the wheel.

Wouldn't you just remount the wheel with the former "inside" now the "outside" to true both sides?

[stevebot]

Tormek wheels are not symmetrical in this way, but it could work with help of a spacer washer.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I tried mine. It will work in the reversed position. However, for it to work, as Steve mentioned, it does need a small spacer. Lowe's or any hardware store sells 14mm fender washers. (pack of three and useful for Tormekers) One fender between the existing stone washer on the Tormek gives enough clearance to keep the stone away from the housing and still allows enough shaft length for the EZYlock to hold

Follow the universal support photos I referenced earlier and you should be able to dress the wheel.

Frankly,

I would try using the dressing stick or T bar on the inside first. Place a protective piece of cardboard under the dressing stick. The top of the housing will keep the dressing stick in a good position.

Ken 

[OnealWoodworking]

I do not know of any way to true the inside side, but you can true the outside with your truing tool.  Jet makes a right angle universal support adapter and you can use it to run the TT on the outside of the wheel.

I understand exactly what you are talking about and can 'see' it working on the outside of the wheel after playing with it some.

That side of the wheel has a recess that will allow the trueing tool rotating knob someplace to be while the other side of the wheel is flat and that turning wheel / knob gets in the way (would bump the stone before the diamond button)...



Picture shows the diamond button touching the wheel and the turning knob inside the recess with a little room to spare.


I VERY much appreciate your time and thoughts here friend. Words can't express my gratitude for your help and experience. 

I need to get that Jet part and figure out how to get the knob off of the trueing tool without breaking it... 

[OnealWoodworking]

I looked at my SB-250 on the T7. Mine seems to be true both on the inner and outer surfaces.

I recently trued my Norton 3x wheel I use on the Tormek. I had allowed a groove to form around 1/16" (2mm) deep. (no excuses) I used a grinding wheel dressing stick. It did a very adequate job. It is 6" long, x 1" x 1" (150mmx25mmx25mm) and resembles a gray cinderblock. I believe a Norton Norbide stick might have done a better job, but I already had the dressing stick.

I don't know if the dressing stick is hard enough to work with the SB wheel. You could set the dressing stick on the housing with or without the universal support pulled in close for added support. I would put some tape down first to protect the paint on the housing and the universal support chrome. Such lightly at first to see how it cuts.

A second possibility would be to use a diamond T dresser.

I have not tried either of these on the SB, but both work with the Norton wheels. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Ken

Ken, You ARE a true asset to this community without a doubt. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your thoughts and help here. 

I am not quite following the advice about the use of a dressing stick though. Could you please share some pics perhaps to get me thinking in the right direction and help me better understand how you fix your Norton wheels?

I had a 'feeling' that if I asked you guys for help that I would get expert advice and I am certainly NOT disappointed! 

[Elden]

none,
   Using Ken' s concept in http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2519.msg12913#msg12913 , it appears that the tool jigs could be moved closer to the center of the T7. That would allow the wooden rest to be mounted on the inside of the grinding wheel by using an appropriate sized spacer block under the rest to allow it to clear the obstructions (handle, etc). The dressing brick or a hand held diamond dresser should then be able to be held securely on the wooden rest to contact the inside side of the grinding wheel.

[Ken S]

OW,

Looking at your photograph, I am unsure which knob is the problem. If the problem is the knob which screws in (to lock the jig), the fix is easy. The knob can be replaced by a standard 6mm bolt (with a smaller head). I used a configuration like this on one of my less than successful small knife holder prototypes.

If the problem is one of the knobs which moved the diamond along the stone, the knob could be sanded down with a belt sander. This isn't the most elegant of solutions, but it should work.

Ken

[Elden]

Ken, if you can enlarge the picture, it appears the feed knob is in the dished out part of the wheel.