Mr Stupid here.. I have to ask. The WM-200. How do i use it on knifes

[Jimmy R Jørgensen]

The tormek Wm-200 video is quite short and show how i can set it to a angle, but it fail to show how i find the angle already on the knife.. So looking at the manual page 145 it show that the knife need to go all the way down into the erhh bow gauge?. but most knifes have 2 bevels (if i got the teknical terms correct) so how do i find the angle there, because knifes won't fit into the anglemaster. Or i'm unabel to make it fit, or just to stupid to figur it out.


How do you guy's do it. or what do you do when sharpening knifes?..

Thanks in advance.. and please.. make it simple.. lots of pictures ehh

[Ken S]

Jimmy, as forum moderator, I cannot allow you to call yourself "Mr. Stupid", especially when you were the one who was able to upload my article for me. Allowing that might be an admission that the moderator was "Mr. Really Stupid"!

I think the WM-200 anglemaster is a very good tool, when it works. The angle slots work well when there is enough tool to see well, such as a chisel. The measuring function also works very well with chisels and plane blades. I find it difficult to use with knives.

In his "Sharpening School" DVD, Steve shows using a black marker to duplicate an existing bevel. When you have a known good bevel which needs sharpening, the simple marker works very effectively. This technique is also shown in the handbook. As I recall, it is also shown in Jeff Farris' videos.

You happened to post while I am in the middle of developing an aid to set knife bevels. i plan to use it in conjunction with the kenjig. First the length of the knife jig with knife is set to the line (139mm in my case). The new under development idea is a very simple piece of steel 25mm wide by 40mm long by 3 mm thick (1" x 1 1/2" x 1/8"). I purchased a three foot length at the local hardware store (1 meter). When I cut it to size, I will grind a bevel on one of the 40mm sides. The bevel will be less than fifteen degrees. I can place this in the knife jig in place of the knife; set it to my standard 139mm; and rest it on the grinding wheel with the bevel down (against the grinding wheel). I can then place the anglemaster on the flat steel and set the distance from the universal support to the grinding wheel to the desired angle.

The universal support to grinding wheel distance can be noted and transferred to a kenjig. The jig should be market with the bevel angle.

My motivation for this is to provide a simple setting option for those who are not comfortable using Dutchman's trig tables.

I will state that this idea is not tested. I just bought the steel this afternoon. I want these ideas to be "open source", so please feel free to use and improve them. Please post your thoughts and results.

I hope others will post regarding using the anglemaster with knives.

Patience, Jimmy. You are not stupid, just (like the rest of us) still learning.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

but most knifes have 2 bevels (if i got the teknical terms correct) so how do i find the angle there, because knifes won't fit into the anglemaster.

Not sure what you mean when you say it won't fit. Find the notch in which it does fit. Some notches will be too narrow, others too wide, so find the notch that comes closest.

This angle is what Tormek calls the edge angle. Since a knife (usually) has a bevel on each side, you would divide the edge angle by 2 to get the bevel angle.

Or, don't worry about measuring angles and just use a marker pen to cover the bevel with ink (color the bevel). Then touch the bevel to a dry grindstone to see if you're meeting it at the right angle. If the angle is off you'll see the ink rubbed off from the tip instead of the heel, or the heel instead of the tip. But if you get the angle just right you'll see ink rubbed off the entire surface of the bevel.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Why won't the knives go into the anglemaster?
Have you tried a new knife?  Are they some kind of thicker then usual (like homemade) knife, or is it because they are worn and the metal is folded over (curved tip)?

If the later is the case, you might hone them first to flatten the edge.  But realize that a beaten up edge, may not give you a true fit, where a new knife would. Also, some knives have standard angles, like European style kitchen knives, are typically sharpened at 20 degrees (10 degrees each angle), while Japanese kitchen knives are more often 15 degrees. (could try looking up the knife angle for the type of knife)

[Jan]

Jimmy, it may be difficult to measure the edge angles with WM-200, if there is primary and secondary bevel on the blade.

In blue, I have shown fitting the primary bevel in the notch 17.5^o. It does not fit perfectly because the edge was blunted by grinding the secondary bevel.




In red, I have shown fitting the secondary bevel in the notch 30^o. Only the edge fits in the notch. In this case it is only raw estimation of the secondary edge angle's.

In real situations the difference between the primary and secondary edge angles is smaller than shown in my picture. 

Jan

[Jimmy R Jørgensen]

Thanks for the inputs and help, perhaps i should just let the anglemaster go and use the marker on the knifes edge to show me the way. Not sure if that gave any meanint.. But i'm more ready now so you helped. thanks.

[Ken S]

Wise thought, Jimmy. You can return to the anglemaster whenever you wish. In the meantime, the black marker will serve you and help you develop your skill..

Ken