Other Stones for the Tormek system?

[jcmv4792]

I finally went ahead and got a torkmek t-7, along with an extra "Japanese 4000 grit stone". Are there any sources that sell other grit stones?(2000, 6000, 10,000...etc)

[Ken S]

I don't know of any other Tormek compatable stones in these grits. Based on the prices of very fine grit waterstones and hard Arkansas stones, an 8000 or 10,000 grit Tormek stone would be very  cost prohibitive. The manufacturing costs and minimal demand would drive the cost to around a thousand dollars US.

Very few tools need a more polished edge than the 4000 grit.

Ken

[Titian]

Congrat's on your purchase, I hope your new toy investment meets your expectations? I's still considering my options while saving up.

When I was looking a couple of weeks ago I stumbled across this chap's vid's on the tube (link below), which are very comprehensive, I dont understand Slovak but they are worth a watch anyhow. 

He uses a number of stones and compares the results, among them is a natural stone from Slovakia 'Rozsutec' which is around 6000 grit. It's not that expensive, there's a link somewhere on one of the vids that he quotes about 120 euro's. The other interesting one is a Naniwa Superstone 1000 which is around 200 euro's. From what I can pick up it's about finding combinations of stones what work for the steel to be sharpened.

Sharpening is an art as well as a science and financial black hole...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOAM5HV9NFE&list=PLyvmDLpm98IL5rrQLoLg4pIgvmkDtte1E&index=1

[Ken S]

I believe the multi grit grinding wheel belief fits the bench stone world more than the Tormek world. Beyond a basic level of sharpness, I believe the primary constraint is the level of skill of the sharpener rather than the grit of the stone. My definition of being a skilled Tormek sharpener would be if one can use the Tormek as effectively as Jeff Farris does, he is indeed a skilled sharpener. For those of us, myself included, who have not achieved that level of skill, I think the place to begin is to improve the skill of the sharpener.

The day to day Tormek is really designed around the 200-1000 grit general stone. In recent years the SB and SJ stones have been added for specialty use. I have used the SB stone for some high speed drill bits.  The SG stone seemed to work as well. I might think differently if I had to sharpen a lot of drill bits; or exotic turning tools; or planer blades.

Ionut, a forum member who sadly no longer posts, has a great set up with the 4000 grit stone.  He has a second Tormek.  I think that is the way to go if one plans to use the 4000 grit stone. The Tormek is most efficient at sharpening.  It will shape turning tools, however, it is not efficient at this.  It will also polish, although, likewise, it is not the Tormek's strong area. The Tormek does a fine job of removing nicks in chisels and sharpening knives.  If that chisel or knife needs to be polished to the nth degree, a rarity, it's time to call in the very fine diamond paste or superfine water stones. In the real world this rarely happens.

I actually have one non Tormek stone.  It's about 600 grit. I fell victim to trying to avoid using the stone grader.  The 600 grit stone is slower than the 200 grit Tormek stone, and not as smooth as the Tormek stone graded fine. I used it a couple times and have not used it since.

My advice would be that when a sharpener is as fluent as Jeff Farris, if that sharpener feels the need for a different wheel, buy it. Until that point, keep working.

Ken

[jcmv4792]

Congrat's on your purchase, I hope your new toy investment meets your expectations? I's still considering my options while saving up.

When I was looking a couple of weeks ago I stumbled across this chap's vid's on the tube (link below), which are very comprehensive, I dont understand Slovak but they are worth a watch anyhow. 

He uses a number of stones and compares the results, among them is a natural stone from Slovakia 'Rozsutec' which is around 6000 grit. It's not that expensive, there's a link somewhere on one of the vids that he quotes about 120 euro's. The other interesting one is a Naniwa Superstone 1000 which is around 200 euro's. From what I can pick up it's about finding combinations of stones what work for the steel to be sharpened.

Sharpening is an art as well as a science and financial black hole...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOAM5HV9NFE&list=PLyvmDLpm98IL5rrQLoLg4pIgvmkDtte1E&index=1

Pretty much. When I first saw the price of the tormek I said no way... but considering that all my japanese water stones added up is around the same price it's a fair deal.

I've seen his videos but I wonder if those carriers will ship to the US. I'll contact them and see what they can do.

[jcmv4792]

I believe the multi grit grinding wheel belief fits the bench stone world more than the Tormek world. Beyond a basic level of sharpness, I believe the primary constraint is the level of skill of the sharpener rather than the grit of the stone. My definition of being a skilled Tormek sharpener would be if one can use the Tormek as effectively as Jeff Farris does, he is indeed a skilled sharpener. For those of us, myself included, who have not achieved that level of skill, I think the place to begin is to improve the skill of the sharpener.

The day to day Tormek is really designed around the 200-1000 grit general stone. In recent years the SB and SJ stones have been added for specialty use. I have used the SB stone for some high speed drill bits.  The SG stone seemed to work as well. I might think differently if I had to sharpen a lot of drill bits; or exotic turning tools; or planer blades.

Ionut, a forum member who sadly no longer posts, has a great set up with the 4000 grit stone.  He has a second Tormek.  I think that is the way to go if one plans to use the 4000 grit stone. The Tormek is most efficient at sharpening.  It will shape turning tools, however, it is not efficient at this.  It will also polish, although, likewise, it is not the Tormek's strong area. The Tormek does a fine job of removing nicks in chisels and sharpening knives.  If that chisel or knife needs to be polished to the nth degree, a rarity, it's time to call in the very fine diamond paste or superfine water stones. In the real world this rarely happens.

I actually have one non Tormek stone.  It's about 600 grit. I fell victim to trying to avoid using the stone grader.  The 600 grit stone is slower than the 200 grit Tormek stone, and not as smooth as the Tormek stone graded fine. I used it a couple times and have not used it since.

My advice would be that when a sharpener is as fluent as Jeff Farris, if that sharpener feels the need for a different wheel, buy it. Until that point, keep working.

Ken

Great advice. So would you say it's better to just use the tormek for putting a cutting edge back on a dull kitchen knife, and then polishing it manually with a benchstone afterwards?

[Ken S]

Good question.  In my opinion it makes sense to use just the Tormek, coarse, fine and then leather honing wheel.  (Start knives with grade fine.) Once one is proficient at this, if the edge needs further polishing, I would bring out my Norton 8000 grit water stone. if it needed polishing beyond that, I would look into one of the finer Shapton stones. That stated, I don't think most edges require this.  A kitchen knife should have some tooth.  A chisel used for utility work  certainly does not.  A chisel used for dovetail chopping probably doesn't need that much polishing. A hand plane used for competition planing might, but not for just regular use.

if you already have finer water stones, try sharpening one tool with just the Tormek and another tool following through the bench stones.  See if you notice a difference.

And,  be sure to post the results.

Ken

[jcmv4792]

Will do. Just waiting for my long knife jig to arrive to sharpen some of my bigger knives.

What are some good microscope cameras for knives?(I'm looking for one that produces sharp images). Also, what magnification level do you prefer for looking at knife edges?

[jeffs55]

Once again for anyone that will listen. I have two Tormeks and one is dedicated to a 4000 grit Japanese stone. It is a novelty and that is all. It is not necessary except if a person has to have bragging rights that they used one as a final hone. It is after all, a honing device. You could "sharpen" on it till the cows come home and it will only polish your edge. The edge could be rough as a cob but highly polished. I mean the high edges of the various grit stone marks would be highly polished. It is just a substitute for the honing leather at a considerable extra cost. I do not regret buying it but if someone such as myself had explained it to me the way I am explaining it to the choir, I would not have bought it.

[SharpenADullWitt]

I would try the knives off of the regular stone first.  I do think the SJ might have some practical use if one were a professional chef (I know two, one retired) and did their knives more often then most people.  Other then usefulness, it seems it would be more about bragging rights (and then maybe one would look at other more expensive systems, just because).
The general consensus I read, says the SG and maybe the SB stones, are pretty much the useful ones.

[Rhino]

I think having an electric water cooled grinder moving around at high speed relative to hand grinding gives me the patience to take my time and get the edge right.  Also, with woodworking, an "ultrasharp edge" turns into a "regular very sharp" edge in no time.  In my experience, even a kitchen knife dulls from "ultrasharp edge" turns into a "regular very sharp" quickly.  I am happy with the regular stone supplemented with regular honing (without using a Tormek).

[Herman Trivilino]

So would you say it's better to just use the tormek for putting a cutting edge back on a dull kitchen knife, and then polishing it manually with a benchstone afterwards?

I recommend polishing it with the Tormek leather wheel. Perhaps an accomplished sharpener could get better results with a bench stone, but in my opinion it would require a great deal of skill to be able to hold the knife both accurately and precisely at the correct angle.

Plus, for many applications you don't want a polished edge, you want some "tooth" to make the cutting action more effective.

[Ken S]

Leonard Lee, the founder of Lee Valley and Veritas tools, has written an excellent book on sharpening. He has also done avery good sharpening video.  (Both ate still available.) He has a good discussion of knife sharpening.  He uses bench a bench stone, however, the principles are the same. He is the one who introduced me to the concept of "tooth" in a sharp knife.

I believe every sharpener's personal library should include Lee's book as well as Ron Hock's book.

Ken