BGM-100 for old SA-250/wobble

[lars667]

Hi there. I found this terrific forum after buying a used SA-250. I need a truing tool for this grinder, so I already ordered TT-50 and the US-105, which is necessary to get the micro-adjusting screw. But after I ordered this, I saw the BGM-100, which seems to offer both the horisontal grip, micro-adjuster and universal stand. Would I be better off ordering this, getting the horisontal grip/fasteners too? I take it would be possible to mount this hardware on the SA-250 just by drilling a couple of holes? Any thoughts on this?

Not sure if I need the horisontal stand, but I imagine it would be nice when grinding away from the edge. I will mostly use the grinder for planers, axes, knives and chisels.

Thanks.

Edit: Added wobble problem in title.

[SharpenADullWitt]

I don't know when they changed, (yours is an old square housing design by what I have seen/read), but the early 2000 models were also square.  From a post here:
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=937.0
The bar size of yours needs to be checked (it may be a smaller bar).  If that is the case, you will also need those sleeves/bushings.
Personally I think the BGM would be the better value (cheaper then separate).  You could also use it to line up the holes for the sleeves (mark the spacings). But they won't have the install instructions.
Went looking for the instructions (my links sometimes have extra garbage on the end):
http://tormek.com/media/104077/mounting_xb100_en.pdf
http://tormek.com/media/234044/instruction_bgm-100_en.pdf
and Welcome to the forum.

[Ken S]

Welcome, Lars.

The online handbooks listed on the tormek website don't go back to the SA-250. I hope Stig will check with the archives in Sweden after holiday (ending the fourth of this month).  Be careful when purchasing the brackets for the 105. Being thrifty, I thought I had found a bargain at my local dealer.  When I got home I realized it was an older model with two sleeves and only one locking screw.  You will want the new and improved model with two locking screws.  Being able to grind in the horizontal position is useful.  The earlier handbooks should cover modifying existing models with the horizontal brackets.

You may have the oldest Tormek on the forum. Is there a serial number on it?

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Be careful when purchasing the brackets for the 105. Being thrifty, I thought I had found a bargain at my local dealer.  When I got home I realized it was an older model with two sleeves and only one locking screw.  You will want the new and improved model with two locking screws.  Being able to grind in the horizontal position is useful.  The earlier handbooks should cover modifying existing models with the horizontal brackets.

In 2002 I purchased my SuperGrind 2000 and it has only one locking screw on the XB-100 Horizontal Base.  Prior to that models had no horizontal base at all, and after that they had two locking screws.  From the SharpToolsUSA website:

"The latest version is now cast and precision machined and has locks on both legs."

I rarely use mine.  Most of the time I'm grinding towards the edge.  I've thought about drilling and tapping mine so I could add the other locking screw.  Should be pretty easy to do.

[lars667]

I, thank you for all the kind replies and warm welcome. I have not found any serial on the machine, but I will check again? However, this machine has two locking screws for the universal stand, and the stand diameter of 12mm. I've read thru numerous threads here, and gathered that the SG-2000 and T-7 also have the same dieameter. I am pretty sure the US-105 will fit, and then the BGM-100 likewise should fit, right? The BGM-100 being just a normal stand, just with horisontal brackets?

Other than that, the machine seems to be working right, although there is a slight wobble. I think I will be able to sort it out with the truer. The axle nylon bushing seems fine, but I should probably just swap them anyway. The axle just  has some surface rust on the grind stone end, which I think would be normal after a couple of years of use. I haven't checked if it is bent, but I'm thinking that would be very unlikely? I don't think the machine has been used that much, as the diameter of the stone is close to 24 cm. 

[SharpenADullWitt]

I wouldn't bother looking for the serial number, your not going to find it:

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=585.0
I'd like to know if the serial numbers can give one a born on date (figure out when my 2000 was made).

I think what they are referring to (been manually reading 70+ pages here), is their may be some old stock, XB's that have one knob (if someone has old stock lying around).  The BGM came out after the change (so no chance to get the less liked older style).  However the BGM doesn't have the XB install manual I linked to.

If your going to swap out the bushings, I would consider swapping out the shaft for the newer stainless steel with the thumbwheel. (I did it on my 2000, all came together)  Mine the prior/late owner ended up chipping his stone, getting it off a rusted shaft (there is a thread here by Herm, I think with his issue getting a stone off a rusted shaft).  My old stone and shaft was given to my father, who was originally going to use a sewing machine stand for a treadle sharpener, which ended up on a leather sewing machine.  So he was pricing building his own motor and ended up  buying the Grizzly clone, strictly due to cost (mom would kill him for cost of Tormek, especially for amount of use) and putting the Tormek stone on it, truing it (past the chip) and buying the Tormek jigs.  He is trying to find a bargain like I did; my wait was 6 years from the time I first saw Jeff in 2004 to when I found one in my budget and had the cash at the same time. I've found after the initial use, amount of use depends on work schedule and I haven't had any shop time in the last couple years. 

[Herman Trivilino]

I am pretty sure the US-105 will fit, and then the BGM-100 likewise should fit, right? The BGM-100 being just a normal stand, just with horisontal brackets?

The XB-100 bracket, which is part of the BGM-100 kit, is made to fit the 12 mm shafts of the US-105:

http://www.sharptoolsusa.com/xcart/product.php?productid=4&cat=9

Other than that, the machine seems to be working right, although there is a slight wobble.

If the main shaft is bent it's worth upgrading to the new MSK-250 stainless steel main shaft with the EzyLock feature.  The kit comes with new nylon bearings:

http://tormek.com/international/en/spare-parts/shafts/msk-250-stainless-steel-shaft/

[lars667]

Thanks again for the wisdom, I'm reassured that the BGM-100 and its included stand will fit. I've taken out the shaft and inspected all parts. Shaft does not seem bent compared to the universal stand. The bushings have about 0,5mm of play. They are just plain all around, not exactly like the ones I've seen for T7, but I assume the diameter is the same? 16mm inside for shaft, and 22 mm on the outside (the hole on the frame). I'll just order them tomorrow anyway, with the BGM-100.

A pic of the shaft and bushings:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/brv57l3enjqpy0e/2014-08-03%2021.09.39.jpg

[lars667]

Received the BGM-100 and new bearings. Still waiting for truing tool. The BGM-100 stand fits nicely. Bearings are installed, but there's still a wobble. Mostly up and down on the grindstone, which should mean untrue stone, right? But the honing wheel has some insane sideway movement. Please have a look at this video. Is the shaft warped? I guess it's difficult to tell. This machine just got a bit more expensive than I thought, so I'm a bit hesitant to buy a new shaft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arv1SISCF_c&list=UUOX_0p43Kkl-4N8HwQYiMrA

[SharpenADullWitt]

Lars, since you have already removed the shaft to replace the bearings, it should be easily removable again.  You could roll the bar on a flat surface and watch it. 
Part of me thinks, what will be found is a cracked drive wheel (overtightening), or a high spot on the drive wheel that doesn't allow all three dimples to fall into their respective spots on the adjoining wheel.
Part of me says you didn't leave the camera there long enough for a valid look at the spacing, and the wheel coloration, is causing me to see an optical illusion.

[lars667]

Of course, rolling the shaft on a flat surface would tell. I can't see excessive lateral movement on the grindstone. As you say, it's some different colors/patterns. Thanks for your suggestions, I will check for cracks as well.

[lars667]

There seems to be some uneven-ness on the part of the honing wheel that goes between the nut/washer and the shaft. Might have been overtightened at some point. Shaft is straight. It's not crucial that the honing wheel is unwobbly anyway.

I also was able to mount the horisontal mount and the old universal stand, so now I have both ways! Nice when doing freehand.

[Herman Trivilino]

The grindstone doesn't wobble side-to-side, but it is out of round, so a true it up and you'll be good to go.

The side-to-side wobble in the honing wheel may be due to a bent shaft, crooked mounting, or warped wheel.  Anyway, it won't effect performance as far as I can tell.

I think that once you true the grindstone you'll be good to go.

[lars667]

Got the truing tool yesterday, and after about an hour of grinding, I managed to get it true. Yes, it was badly untrue, and I had to take small turns, about half a grade on the microadjuster, with the diamond bit going back and forth for each half grade. Now I just have to learn using the tool. Thanks for all your advice!

[Ken S]

Good job, Lars!

I don't believe your wheel will ever get that out of true again under your watchful eye. You have experienced truing a very out of true grinding wheel.  Future minor tuning up of your wheel will seem short and pleasant from having this memory.

I found replacing my shaft a valuable learning experience.  As much as I like the new EZYlock shaft, the real value of the work was in learning how the Tormek works.  It was learning beyond books and videos.  It was learning from the hands.  My greasy fingers helped me really understand how the Tormek ticks. I will probably never teach a class on using the Tormek.  If I did teach such a class, it would include having the students actually disassemble and reassemble their units. It's the difference between just knowing how to drive and also knowing how to repair your car's engine.

I recommend you now read the tips post at the top of this forum section.  Spend some time with a 3/4" chisel (approximately 20mm if you live in metric land).  Watch Jeff's videos on the tormek.com and sharptoolsusa.com sites.  Put your new mechanic's knowledge into real sharpening. Spending some time sharpening and resharpening a chisel will give you a feel for how your Tormek works and sounds.

If you don't have a chisel, Kenny might lend you a few to sharpen for him.

Keep posting.

Ken