Universal Support is too short

[RobinW]

I see that Ken has replied whilst I was composing the following, and his will be more suitable as my notes suit the SE76.

However I think the problem as you show is insufficient travel to the inboard direction, not falling off the end when going outboard.

The following comments apply to the SE76 (might apply to the older jig - others can advise):-

The SE76 experiences the same problem when used with the USB in the horizontal position and grinding away from the edge of the tool. If you look at the manual, any picture shows the SE76 with the USB in the vertical position, and grinding towards the edge of the chisel.

The reference edge for aligning the chisel is to the right of the SE76 (picture of the small chisel), and that's fine in the vertical position. If you want to get full movement in the horizontal position, although I have not used it, you have to turn the SE76 through 180 degrees so the reference edge is to the left. This also means that the chisel has to be re-inserted into the SE76 from the opposite side.

What you can't do, is set the chisel in the SE76 and use in the vertical position, then take it off and use with the bar in the horizontal position. You have to change the jig and the chisel and re-set for length and angle.

Hope that's clear. If you're still puzzled, let me know and I'll do some photos.

[Herman Trivilino]

You have to use the SE-76 with the universal support in the vertical position.

You will grind faster that way, too.

[Ken S]

Paul,

Oops! My universal support bars are both the latest version, which includes having the end threaded for the outer stop.  If yours is older, like your jig, it may not be threaded to accept the outer stop.  I've never seen one to know.  If your rod is threaded, it's a simple, and inexpensive fix.  If not, you may end up either living with it or purchasing a new universal support bar.  A threaded bar and the outer stop will solve your falling off problem.  The SE-76 is a nice improvement, although you can compensate by carefully checking the blade for square. I would use a small hammer with light taps to adjust the blade position, just like adjusting a plane blade.

Ken

ps If you order an outer stop, I would order a spare micro adjusting nut if your bar uses it.  It makes a very nice, secure locking arrangement.  With the price of shipping, I would try to combine the parts.  Incidentally, I just ordered a second spare micro adjusting nut (for my spare bar) as part of an order for honing compound.

[MakerUnknown]

First off, I understand my Tormek is an older model and there may or may not be design changes that make my post unnecessary for those who have either upgraded or bought newer.
I still maintain there were design lapses.
Pic one. Vertical position.  This is fine, the stop allows for the enough movement to go and start on the left side of the stone.
Pic two.  Either the support bar is too short or the jig is poorly designed as the stop can not go off the right side of the stone without the jig coming off the bar.
And since we, or at least I am, speaking on incomplete or lazy design.  One would think the positioning brackets for both vertical and horizontal attitudes relative to the stone be the same.  They are not because the handle gets in the way. 
Again, I'm only talking about my machine and the way it was when I bought it in the late 1990's

[Herman Trivilino]

My universal support bars are both the latest version, which includes having the end threaded for the outer stop.  If yours is older, like your jig, it may not be threaded to accept the outer stop.

Mine is the older type and it's not threaded.  As far as I can tell, the stop will not fix this problem anyway.

[Herman Trivilino]

First off, I understand my Tormek is an older model and there may or may not be design changes that make my post unnecessary for those who have either upgraded or bought newer.
I still maintain there were design lapses.
Pic one. Vertical position.  This is fine, the stop allows for the enough movement to go and start on the left side of the stone.
Pic two.  Either the support bar is too short or the jig is poorly designed as the stop can not go off the right side of the stone without the jig coming off the bar.

In the top picture the jig has been moved as far to the right as it needs to go so that the left edge of a blade would be aligned with the left edge of the stone.  Note that you need go no further to the right, but you still do have room to move it further to the right.

The problem you'll run into is that you cannot move the jig far enough to the left so that the left edge of a blade would not reach the left edge of the stone.  You can fix this problem by flipping the jig over. 

The jig is upside down in your pictures!

My machine was purchased in Feb 2002, and yours is a bit older than that.  It looks the same as Elden's with the switch on the top instead of on the front.  Everything else, including your jig and universal support, is the same as mine.

[MakerUnknown]

Herman,
I do not use the jig in this position.  I only shot it this way to illustrate the design failings.  I've been using the Tormek since oh.. about 1996 and feel I'm pretty checked out on the ins and outs of it.

[Jeff Farris]

Neither the SVH-60 (original straight edge jig) nor the newer SE-76 were designed to work in the horizontal position. It is not very effective on straight edges.

[MakerUnknown]

I guess I'm beating a dead horse here but it doesn't matter horizontal or vertical, the design is flawed.  One more inch of USB would have solved the problem. 

[Herman Trivilino]

Ok, I finally see what you're talking about.  I had to hold your photograph next to my machine to see it, but it appears your universal support bar is just about a centimeter or so shorter than mine.  Either that or the mounting holes are shifted about a centimeter relative to mine.

Mine was purchased Feb 2002.

[Jeff Farris]

No, it wasn't and isn't flawed. If the tool is indexed to the correct side of the jig and used in the vertical mount, you will be off the stone before the jig leaves the Universal Support. The horizontal base has to be offset or the posts of the Universal Support would hit the vertical mounts. A longer bar on the Universal Support starts to introduce a tipping problem. Believe it or not, more than a couple of vitally interested parties have looked at this issue for decades.

[Ken S]

Paul,

To satisfy your curiosity, why don't you make up a prototype longer support bar?  One piece of a good hardwood dowel should be all you need.  Building time should be minimal.  You would then be able to decide if the longer length really is a benefit or a constraint.  You might have discovered a better mouse trap.

If you do so, please post your thoughts.

Ken

ps I wish I had been a tormek user when the support bar was first introduced.  With the possible exception of the built in motor, I think it is probably the most notable advance.

[Herman Trivilino]

The horizontal section of my universal support extends 20.5 cm (8-1/16") out past the vertical section.

Comparing mine to the photograph of yours, mine appears to be about 1 cm longer.

[Jeff Farris]

I see what you're describing now in your photograph.

Did you by chance purchase your machine second-hand and/or as a demonstrator from a shop?

The reason I ask is that the Universal Support for the smaller machine (1600 or T-3) is shorter. I think you have the wrong Universal Support, which could have happened if someone ordered the wrong replacement or if a shop keeper got them mixed up on the demo machines. It's possible, but highly unlikely that it was factory packaged that way.

[MakerUnknown]

If memory serves me correctly, I purchased it at one of those traveling woodworking shows with the manufacturer booths and people hawking the tools.
Circa 1996 San Mateo, California