Sharpening Basics using a T8

[texaspro]

I've watched every video on YouTube I can find on sharpening basics with a Tormek. Sadly, most of the videos are either short and lack detail or flat out incorrect and go against what the manual states. So, I'm on a search for some instructional materials.

Quite simply, I'm a newb to sharpening and want to understand what it is I am supposed to be doing instead of grinding away. I've gotten my technique down pretty well. First few blades were brutal with divots and inconsistent bevels. I'm good now, but the blades I have managed to get sharp are not very sharp. Perhaps some of the pros on here can help with some basics.

As I understand it, on an already profiled blade where I am just sharpening it, my goal should be to create an even burr on one side the full length of the blade with the 220 grit stone, then flip it over and do the same. From there, take it to the strop wheel to gently remove the burr (I can see it coming off). This is what I have been doing, but it's not generating razor sharp blades. 

- Should I be taking the stone up to 1k before stropping?
- Is stropping even needed if I polish it with 1k?
- Where does the Japanese stone come into play? I have one, but have not broken it out yet.
- How do I know if it's not apexed? Looking at the edge, even with a magnifying glass, it's hard to tell.

Thank you

CWS

[texaspro]

EDIT: I am good with setting the angle on an existing bevel, BTW. The marker technique has been awesome. The angle master has been helpful as well. Using one of the two, I should be good there.

[cbwx34]

I've watched every video on YouTube I can find on sharpening basics with a Tormek. Sadly, most of the videos are either short and lack detail or flat out incorrect and go against what the manual states. So, I'm on a search for some instructional materials.

Quite simply, I'm a newb to sharpening and want to understand what it is I am supposed to be doing instead of grinding away. I've gotten my technique down pretty well. First few blades were brutal with divots and inconsistent bevels. I'm good now, but the blades I have managed to get sharp are not very sharp. Perhaps some of the pros on here can help with some basics.

As I understand it, on an already profiled blade where I am just sharpening it, my goal should be to create an even burr on one side the full length of the blade with the 220 grit stone, then flip it over and do the same. From there, take it to the strop wheel to gently remove the burr (I can see it coming off). This is what I have been doing, but it's not generating razor sharp blades. 

- Should I be taking the stone up to 1k before stropping?
- Is stropping even needed if I polish it with 1k?
- Where does the Japanese stone come into play? I have one, but have not broken it out yet.
- How do I know if it's not apexed? Looking at the edge, even with a magnifying glass, it's hard to tell.

Thank you

CWS

(The below assumes that your sharpening knives that aren't in really bad shape, and your basically matching the bevel that's already on the blade).


If all your doing at this point is matching the bevel that's currently on the blade and sharpening... grade your wheel "fine" and leave it there.  Think of "coarse" for repairs or setting a new bevel.

What I like to do prior to the honing wheel, is to make a couple of light alternating passes... as light as possible, on the stone.  This reduces the burr, and gives better results honing.  (Did I mention light)?

When I move to the leather wheel... to make sure I'm honing the edge, (refining it and cleaning up the burr)... what I like to do is start on the side that has the burr, and place it on the wheel at the heel, at an angle I know is lower than the sharpening angle.  Then, before I start moving the knife across, I slowly increase the angle until I feel and hear (especially hear) the edge make contact with the edge.  Then hone across the blade at this angle, making sure you feel & hear the contact along the entire edge.  (All this done freehand).  If there's a burr, it will often create a bit of "dust" that gets thrown up, where it contacts the wheel... hone until this stops on that side, then switch sides and repeat.

Burr removal and edge refinement is usually what take a bit of practice... and probably where you need to concentrate.

To answer your questions...

Yes- again, when starting out, think of 1K as sharpening, coarse or 220 as fixing.

Yes- chances are you'll still have a burr to remove, and also to refine the edge.

You can use the SJ wheel to hone the edge as an alternative to the leather wheel, or when you gain experience in addition to...(but I'd practice with the leather wheel first, until you get that down).

If you raise a burr on each side of the blade, and Sharpie has been removed, (but especially the burr)... you've apexed the edge.  The burr tells you that you've reached the edge.  Once you raise a burr on one side then the other, do a couple of light alternating passes, then move to the leather wheel.  (So, if you haven't raised a burr... not apexed yet).

[texaspro]

Awesome, awesome, tips. Thank you so much!

You're assumptions are correct. The reason I was using the 220 grit was b/c it was the only thing I was getting an edge with. It sounds like I just got lucky those few times (was able to get 2 out of 4 knives cutting paper at least) on honing.

Ok, so it sounds like the step(s) I a missing are burr removal and edge refinement. I agree completely.

Burr removal - I assume that when I get a burr, that at least means I'm essentially done on the stone and need to move to the strop. What I've been doing is swiping the burr edge down slowly a few times on the stropping wheel. That usually brings up the dust, as you mentioned, across the entire blade. I usually stop here and check sharpness and it is usually dull. Sounds like you're saying I need to ease into it more. Am I taking the burr and the edge off unintentionally by doing this?

Edge Refinement - is this different than burr removal?

Again, thank you for the time to respond!

CWS

[Ken S]

If you are searching for good instructional materials, the best source is the handbook. It was written many years ago by Torgny Jansson, the engineer who invented the Tormek. Unfortunately, Torgny passed away around ten years ago. Except for bits and pieces about new models, jigs, and accessories, the handbook has remained unchanged. The SG is well covered. Newer wheels, including the SB, SJ, and diamond wheels are barely mentioned. Nor has much video support been done with these wheels. That is one reason I recommend that new users stick with the SG.

Tormek has commissioned some outstanding technical videos over the years. The lathe tools DVD that Jeff Farris did using a SuperGrind remains an excellent training resource, as does the video that Alan Holtham did later with the DBS-22 drill bit jig. Jeff Farris also did some good shorter videos with chisel, knife, and scissors sharpening.

Beyond these, quite frankly, you will find most of the expert advice on this forum. I certainly do not include myself in the first tier of knife sharpeners, however, we have several on the forum.

One area where I find the Tormek information lacking is in grading for the most desirable grit for different tools. Tools like planer blades and turning tools cut a lot of wood between sharpenings. They need all the coarseness the 220grit SG can muster. Chisels are often used too long before being resharpened. Ideally, kitchen knives will require gentler sharpening. Carving tools should only need a delicate touch with a fine stone. This is the kind of skill one develops with experience.

Give yourself the luxury of being an apprentice. Do not expect to master sharpening overnight. With diligence and focused effort, your skills will develop. Do not become discouraged.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Awesome, awesome, tips. Thank you so much!

You're assumptions are correct. The reason I was using the 220 grit was b/c it was the only thing I was getting an edge with. It sounds like I just got lucky those few times (was able to get 2 out of 4 knives cutting paper at least) on honing.

Ok, so it sounds like the step(s) I a missing are burr removal and edge refinement. I agree completely.

Burr removal - I assume that when I get a burr, that at least means I'm essentially done on the stone and need to move to the strop. What I've been doing is swiping the burr edge down slowly a few times on the stropping wheel. That usually brings up the dust, as you mentioned, across the entire blade. I usually stop here and check sharpness and it is usually dull. Sounds like you're saying I need to ease into it more. Am I taking the burr and the edge off unintentionally by doing this?

Edge Refinement - is this different than burr removal?

Again, thank you for the time to respond!

CWS

I don't understand what you mean by "swiping the burr edge down slowly...", but it sounds like you're not completely removing the burr.  As long as it making "dust"... there's still a burr.  Work the side that has the burr until you believe it's gone (or flipped to the other side)... then turn the knife over and repeat the process.  Edge refinement and burr removal are different.  So, after you remove the burr, you can continue to refine the edge on the leather wheel, with additional passes (alternate now, one pass per side)... making it sharper.  Just don't do too much, or your can end up dulling the edge.

[texaspro]

Swiping down = running the blade across

What you're explaining is what I'm doing, except for the edge refinement. I was pretty much just getting the burr off (that I could feel) and stopping/testing only for it to be dull. Do you think that's the only step I'm missing and preventing it from getting sharp?

[texaspro]

If you are searching for good instructional materials, the best source is the handbook. It was written many years ago by Torgny Jansson, the engineer who invented the Tormek. Unfortunately, Torgny passed away around ten years ago. Except for bits and pieces about new models, jigs, and accessories, the handbook has remained unchanged. The SG is well covered. Newer wheels, including the SB, SJ, and diamond wheels are barely mentioned. Nor has much video support been done with these wheels. That is one reason I recommend that new users stick with the SG.

Tormek has commissioned some outstanding technical videos over the years. The lathe tools DVD that Jeff Farris did using a SuperGrind remains an excellent training resource, as does the video that Alan Holtham did later with the DBS-22 drill bit jig. Jeff Farris also did some good shorter videos with chisel, knife, and scissors sharpening.

Beyond these, quite frankly, you will find most of the expert advice on this forum. I certainly do not include myself in the first tier of knife sharpeners, however, we have several on the forum.

One area where I find the Tormek information lacking is in grading for the most desirable grit for different tools. Tools like planer blades and turning tools cut a lot of wood between sharpenings. They need all the coarseness the 220grit SG can muster. Chisels are often used too long before being resharpened. Ideally, kitchen knives will require gentler sharpening. Carving tools should only need a delicate touch with a fine stone. This is the kind of skill one develops with experience.

Give yourself the luxury of being an apprentice. Do not expect to master sharpening overnight. With diligence and focused effort, your skills will develop. Do not become discouraged.

Ken

Thanks Ken. I have watched the speciality tool sharpening videos, but did not see anything I was missing. I'll try them again to see if I missed something though.

What I'm really looking for is a step by step guide. Unfortunately the Tormek manual that came with the machine was not that. If I can get a step by step guide, I can see what step I'm missing.

[cbwx34]

Swiping down = running the blade across

What you're explaining is what I'm doing, except for the edge refinement. I was pretty much just getting the burr off (that I could feel) and stopping/testing only for it to be dull. Do you think that's the only step I'm missing and preventing it from getting sharp?

Yeah... you probably just need to spend a bit more time on the leather wheel.

Have you watched Jeff's video on knife sharpening?  He demonstrates it pretty accurately...

https://youtu.be/fYURcwkKGPs

[texaspro]

Swiping down = running the blade across

What you're explaining is what I'm doing, except for the edge refinement. I was pretty much just getting the burr off (that I could feel) and stopping/testing only for it to be dull. Do you think that's the only step I'm missing and preventing it from getting sharp?

Yeah... you probably just need to spend a bit more time on the leather wheel.

Have you watched Jeff's video on knife sharpening?  He demonstrates it pretty accurately...

https://youtu.be/fYURcwkKGPs

Yes sir, that is the video I've been using as my go to. I'm trying to follow it step by step, which is why I'm so frustrated. Can't seem to see what I am doing wrong. I will try spending more time on the leather.

[cbwx34]

You might also take a look at this one... it should start at 4:58 where he demonstrates honing...

https://youtu.be/xfulzCvBgjk?t=298

[texaspro]

UPDATE: I went straight to the SJ-250 and was able to get the job done. I'm going to run a few more knives over it tomorrow to see if I can duplicate it, but so far so good. Thanks to everyone for their help.

[cbwx34]

UPDATE: I went straight to the SJ-250 and was able to get the job done. I'm going to run a few more knives over it tomorrow to see if I can duplicate it, but so far so good. Thanks to everyone for their help.

That's good... I actually woke up this morning with the thought of suggesting the SJ wheel... to see if it was the honing and not the sharpening that could be eliminated as a possible problem... and it's also easier to hone at the same angle and setup with the SJ wheel... so more controlled.

Congrats... you're on your way!

[bisonbladesharpening]

Good lighting is very important as is trusting your fingertips.
Under proper lighting you can see the glint of the burr and actually
see as it disappears through a couple of progressive passes. Using your fingertips to detect any burr is a skill
that you will develop over time.  After stropping I first clean the edge on a lint free towel and can tell if it is grabbing
anywhere along the edge and correct that.  Have Fun.
Best Wishes
Tim

[Ken S]

Tim,

I totally agree about the importance if good lighting.

Ken