Has anyone used the Tormek diamond wheels DRY?

[jeffs55]

I am just tired of the water mess. I am contemplating a CBN wheel as Tormek advises the use of water even with the diamond wheel. I would like to patronize Tormek but do not want water.

[John_B]

I don't have diamond wheels so I cannot answer your question.

One thing I have found is that many people put their water reservoir too high. This leads to spillage and water running where you don't want it. I keep mine as low as possible; with wheels that do mot absorb water I would keep it very low.

[John Hancock Sr]

In the instructions for the diamond wheels they do say that they can be used dry. They provide two caveats though. They will produce dust and shorten the life of the wheel. In that respect they are no different from CBN. There seems to be a prevailing misconception that CBN is the only alternative if you want to sharpen dry, not true. Some CBN manufacturers do recommend that their wheels should be run dry, and some recommend that they be run in coolant/water, the same caveats apply equally to both abrasives.

In higher speed grinders diamond can burn and degrade rapidly, but the Tormek runs slow enough for this to not be a problem.

[RichColvin]

With the diamond wheels, it is key to not over fill the trough.  That helps keep the water splashing down.

The use of a drip tray (https://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexJigs.html#DripTray) helps also.

[Sir Amwell]

Agree with all responses so far.
You say you don't want water.
Without water you will have dust.
Personally I'd prefer water to dust.
For me it's easier to clean up water than it is to vacuum the whole workshop.
And I'm not keen on trying to vacuum my lungs to free them of steel and diamond dust.
Wear a mask I hear you say.
I'd still prefer cleaning up water than wearing a mask......

[John Hancock Sr]

Also - if you have, or know someone who has a 2D printer you can get an over splash tray that goes onto the front mount, assuming you are not using it.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4791736

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I know you are both a longtime Tormek user and a longtime member of the forum. If you are using a T7 or older Tormek, Are you still using the original water trough, or have you upgraded to the AWT-250 Advanced WaterTrough? It has wider lips to catch more water, as well as a removable platform to catch the water from long knives. The AWT-250, when combined with minimal water fell, should take care of your water mess.

Back to your question, Tormek used to have separate diamond wheels for the T2, with a DWF or C designation. They were designed to only be used dry. (They also had no diamonds on the side.) Tormek later changed to only the wheels with side diamonds. These are recommended for wet use with ACC solvent, with dry as a not preferred option.

In my opinion, the benefits of water with ACC exceed any possible drawbacks. In addition to being dust free, the ACC coats both the wheel and the tools.

Ken

[Ken S]

Jeff,

Part of my self training program has been whenever possible trying to shadow the Tormek reps for the day at shows. One early show comes to mind at Hartville Hardware. I arrived at eight o'clock, when the show started. The Tormek agents had not arrived; however, they had hired a "local sharpener" to cover the early morning.
What a stroke of luck for me. The "local sharpener" was Steve Bottorff, who would become my mentor and friend. Steve had the Tormek set up and running. He told me the running water would make people stop and watch who might normally just keep on walking by.

The running Tormek was placed on a Sjoborg workbench, which was protected by only a single layer of cardboard. throughout the entire day, with the Tormek running all day, only a very few drops of water were spilled. I have never forgotten this; it can be done.

Given the cost of a diamond or CBN wheel, or more likely two or three, I would certainly put a major effort in first correcting the spillage problem. Even if you end up purchasing an AWT-250; an RB-180; and a turkey baster, the cost is well below the cost of a superabrasive wheel.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I had the opportunity to observe some different aspects of Tormek culture during my visit, aspects which might not be immediately visible to most people. Some of these pertain to our discussion of wet or dry grinding with diamond wheels.

The Tormek culture, as is typical of Swedish culture, is very environmentally conscious. Almost all of their company vehicles are electric. I had the delightful opportunity of riding with Samuel, the CEO in his electric car. He is both knowledgeable and excited about the environmental benefits of electric vehicles. This environmentally friendly mindset extends throughout the product line. One of the benefits of switching to zinc for housings and jigs  is that zinc requires a lower melting point than other metals. That makes it more energy efficient in both manufacturing and eventually recycling.

Diamond or CBN? Steel or aluminum? I had the pleasure of meeting Håkan, retired CEO now working part time on innovations. Håkan is a respected real deal superabrasives expert. He is also one of the most fair and balanced critics  of both diamond and CBN I have encountered. He presents CBN as the only workable choice for high speed dry grinding while stating that diamonds are his (Tormek's) choice for slow speed wet grinding. He states that Tormek chose steel instead of aluminum for its diamond wheels both for its physical strength AND because fewer chemicals are used in manufacturing steel wheels, the environmental factor.

To the best of my knowledge, Tormek has never recommended using diamond wheels dry with the T8 or T4. They have always said wet grinding with ACC solution is the preferred method, although it is also possible to use them dry.
In my opinion, the dry alternative is more of a marketing counter to dry usage of CBN than a recommendation.

I believe the dry insistence for some CBN wheels was the result of careless usage causing warranty claims rather than technical reasons. I do not believe this issue would have happened if users would have removed them from water between sharpening sessions and used an anti corrosion solution. As I recall, Wootz used CBN wheels wet without problems before he designed his line of wheels.

The ACC solution helps keep the wheels clean as well as preventing rust. (It works best if tools and wheels are left to air dry to let the coating action work best.)

I do not see the recommended occasional scrubbing with PB Blaster as a good alternative to regular use of ACC for diamonds or Honerite Gold for CBN. I don't buy the "expensive" argument with solutions. If someone can't afford the solution, why purchase the thousand dollar set of wheels?

I used to think that diamond wheels would eventually replace conventional grinding wheels. I do not think that any more.I believe superabrasive wheels will expand the scope of the Tormek with supersteels, but that the needs of most users will continue to be well served with the SG and SB wheels combined with good technique.

Ken

[RichColvin]

I believe superabrasive wheels will expand the scope of the Tormek with supersteels, but that the needs of most users will continue to be well served with the SG and SB wheels combined with good technique.

I agree!

[jeffs55]

So I have not made up my mind. I don't sharpen anything except chisels on my Tormek. The water mess caused me to find another solution for knives. Chisels being so much shorter rarely or never in my case extend beyond the edge of the wheel anyway. I do have the very occasional need to follow a curved edge on a knife. Boning knife or kukri for example. These are concave curves and cannot be followed (by me anyway) on a square edge stone. The edge just ruins the curve. The Tormek stones are sharp edged and would just grind up these curves. If I decide to go with a super abrasive stone, it will not be a Tormek diamond stone at this time and I will just stick to the SG 250 till I have had enough. Thanks all.

[cbwx34]

...
I do have the very occasional need to follow a curved edge on a knife. Boning knife or kukri for example. These are concave curves and cannot be followed (by me anyway) on a square edge stone. The edge just ruins the curve. The Tormek stones are sharp edged and would just grind up these curves.
...

Tormek did a live class on this:

The "secret" is to round the edge of the wheel, as seen starting here...

Sharpen Recurved Blades | Part 17 | Tormek Live Sharpening Class... 7:49

[jeffs55]

I wondered about that. Thanx

[John Hall]

If you do want to run dry..as already mentioned...wear a good mask, It's also a good idea to set up dust extraction unit (I use a Henry hoover) as near to the wheel as possible..