SJ-250 and felt wheel for professional sharpening service?

[sharpening_weasel]

Thanks for all the info everybody!

Good to know about the grinding pressure/direction, Rick. What's a good source for felt wheels? I can't seem to find any decent ones the right size. In tandem with the SJ, would you use diamond paste? If so, what grit? I've worked with pretty much every kind of hand stone- arkansas, japanese water stone, diamond, silicon, etc, but I've never used felt wheels before. I assume they're essentially very hard honing wheels? The hardness sounds great- I've always found that squishier/more padded materials like leather never left as good an edge as bare MDF or float glass/sandpaper.

[jeffs55]

"I take a little bit of issue with the blanket statement about not grinding into the SJ stone. " What I meant was that I would bet that if any chunks were taken out of the SJ stone it was because of grinding into the stone. I did not say not to grind into the stone but that if there were chunks removed, that was why. I too, grind into and away from the rotation direction.

[sharpening_weasel]

Copy, Jeff. Understood. Thank you for clarifying.

[RickKrung]

Not sure who that was/is, but I only use the SG graded fine (using a 1000 grit diamond plate for grading), along with the Blackstone (SB) (without grading, only truing) when I use these matrix stones.  SB provides the coarse step, SG the fine step, followed by either honing on the leather wheel or SJ/felt w/1µ diamond paste. 

Rick

Rick, do you use a process of:

      SB, then
      SG (graded to 1,000 grit), then
      SJ (or felt) ?

Rich

Rich,

It varies, depending on several things, including how much effort I want to put in. 

1) SB>SG @1000 > leather with Tormek compound,
2) SB>SG @1000 > SJ > rock hard felt w/ 1µ diamond paste, or
3) Tormek Diamond wheels DC>DF>DE > SJ > rock hard felt w/ 1µ diamond paste.

If an edge is very dull, before any of the above is either

1) A Norton 3X 64 grit 8" traditional grinding wheel on the T8 in the water bath.  More recently, I received a 10" traditional grinding stone as a gift, which I've set up with an appropriate sized bushing to run similarly as the Norton 3X.  Very nice to have similar sized wheels even though there isn't the same consistency as with the three diamond wheels.  The Norton 3x setup has been documented here in previous posts.  (First photo below is of the Norton 3x, second the newer 10" no-name wheel), or

2) A Veil 1x42 belt sander, using Tormek jigs for angle control (extensive modifications and setup to make possible, previously documented here and on the BESSEX).  Very important features are the variable speed controller that has been further slowed to a crawl AND a reversing (DPDT) switch installed, in addition to the physical configuration and setups. 

Rick

[RickKrung]

"I take a little bit of issue with the blanket statement about not grinding into the SJ stone. " What I meant was that I would bet that if any chunks were taken out of the SJ stone it was because of grinding into the stone. I did not say not to grind into the stone but that if there were chunks removed, that was why. I too, grind into and away from the rotation direction.

Copy, Jeff. Understood. Thank you for clarifying.

Ah, good clarification, Jeff.

Rick

[sharpening_weasel]

Thank you so much Rick! Very good to know. For the sake of the wallet- is the SB necessary? Or would the SG->SJ->felt work?

[RickKrung]

...snip...
Good to know about the grinding pressure/direction, Rick. What's a good source for felt wheels? I can't seem to find any decent ones the right size. In tandem with the SJ, would you use diamond paste? If so, what grit? I've worked with pretty much every kind of hand stone- arkansas, japanese water stone, diamond, silicon, etc, but I've never used felt wheels before. I assume they're essentially very hard honing wheels? The hardness sounds great- I've always found that squishier/more padded materials like leather never left as good an edge as bare MDF or float glass/sandpaper.

Below are sources of felt wheels, only one of which I have used. 

Posts #10 and #18 (above) in this thread what I use is mentioned, 1µ diamond paste, same kind as Knife Grinders shows on their web page about felt wheels, but I think they don't sell it.  THK Diamond Tools is where I got mine.  I got several grits, but only use the 1µ. 

Knife Grinders
Rock-hard felt wheel for Tormek + diamond spray + extension shaft
250x45x12 mm

Duro-Felt
FW1011RHB 10" 1" 1" Rock Hard - 0.80 gm/c3   $76.00 each + Pop-Up Bushing

Supergrit
10" X 1" X 1" WOOL FELT POLISHING WHEEL (USA)  Rock Hard $95.00

Thank you so much Rick! Very good to know. For the sake of the wallet- is the SB necessary? Or would the SG->SJ->felt work?

The SB wheel is not at all necessary.  Using the SG trued/graded coarse then graded fine followed by whatever deburring/honing you use works just fine.  I use the SB because I have it and I can use it as the coarse first step and keep the SG at 1000.

In all of this "basic" stuff, to me, the most valuable next addition would be something coarser than the SG or SB, meaning either a traditional grinding wheel mounted to your Tormek or a variable speed belt grinder, as discussed in Post #18, mentioned/linked above. 

Rick

[RickKrung]

...snip...
-if I were in your shoes, to add 'something extra' for your customers, my first investment would be a frontal support mount (several options) with the associated software.  That way you can get into controlled-angle honing which in my opinion will give a performance boost to the longevity of the edges you create.
...snip...
Brad

I think not enough has been made of Brad's suggestion about controlled angle deburring and honing.  This is accomplished best with the use of a "Frontal Vertical Base" (FVB) and associated angle computation software.  Wootz of Knife Grinders first developed the FVB and a software app.  The FVB can be made by many themselves, but KG sells them and his software for setting it using the horizontal USB position.  Other free or near free versions of angle computation apps are available and work well.  Most are oriented to using the height of the USB bar from the top of the case, but, like CB, I've found using the distance from the USB to the grinding wheel the fastest, easiest and most accurage method.  At least two of the apps support this method. 

Along with the FVB and software, you should buy a copy of Wootz's deburring book and study it deeply (not just read it). 

And also do a lot of reading of past posts on these and many other related topics, accessed from the main forum menu.  I see that you first registered in Sept. of 2020, only five months ago.  If you have lurked and only viewed posts in the time frame since you registered, I highly recommend delving back into the archives.  There is a wealth of information to be had. 

Rick

[sharpening_weasel]

Thank you again Rick. I'm yet again blown away by the kindness of those on this forum- thank you all for taking time out of your new years day to discuss sharpening minutiae in great detail, for a random stranger on the internet. Thanks everybody- I'll check out everything recommended. Cheers from cold new england, and best wishes for the new year.

[RickKrung]

You are very welcome, Jesse and welcome to the forum.  You have hit upon one the greatest benefits of this forum.  It has been this way since I joined and I have benefited from it greatly.

Rick

[Ken S]

One of my favorite quotes keeps coming to mind: "Man is the only animal with the one true religion, all seven of them". (Mark Twain) Knife sharpening with the Tormek seems that way to many of us.

Over the years, I have had the opportunity of knowing several Tormek knife sharpeners that I regard as experts. They have all developed working methods which suit their particular requirements. They all work differently. The farmers market sharpener who must sharpen over a hundred knives during a Saturday morning has certain technical needs. A very high end sharpener who caters to very expensive knife owners, professional chefs and meat packing plants will have different priorities. The home sharpener who sharpens kitchen knives for his family with a basic Tormek will have different expectations than the same sharpener who is willing and financially able to invest several thousand dollars. While I realize that all of these priorities are different, I do not feel that any particular set of priorities is "better" than the others.

I am primarily a woodworking tool sharpener. I think 2021 is a good time to focus more intensely on my true sharpening passion and concentrate on woodworking tools.

Ken

[BradGE]

Thank you Rick... FVB was the name I was trying to 'say without saying'... I wasn't sure if it was OK to mention specific brands.   But I certainly like the FVB - so much so that I've got two, even though I only have one T8.  That's because unfortunately KG no longer ships to the UK, but if/when I add another Tormek to my workshop the FVB is the first accessory I'd want...

[ABall]

I got mine from Germany so there is still availability to the UK, quite a bit cheaper too.

[sharpening_weasel]

Hello again- thanks again for all the info. The book everybody mentioned is on the way. I've posted a poll about the best course of action. From what I've gathered the final option seems to be the consensus from knife grinders AG and various other people, but I've also seen everything else. Any input is always massively appreciated.