Shaping HSS knife steel

[Keik]

I should grind (shape) knives from the hss steel plate. Which is better for this job, SB 250 Silicon wheel or DC 250 Diamond wheel and how much faster would it be to use a belt grinder?

[cbwx34]

I should grind (shape) knives from the hss steel plate. Which is better for this job, SB 250 Silicon wheel or DC 250 Diamond wheel and how much faster would it be to use a belt grinder?

Not saying it can't be done... but I can't think of anyone who does stock removal on a Tormek.  Belt grinder is usually the weapon of choice.  I'd do research in that area.

If you're talking about minor shaping... like grinding in a new tip or something, that can be done... I'd opt for the SB wheel over the diamond wheel for that.  (See what others say...).

[Ken S]

Keik,

The Tormek is designed for sharpening rather than shaping. However, with the right wheel, it can do a respectable shaping job. The best working coarse wheel I have found for the Tormek is the Norton 3X 46 grit.
It is not an ideal, plug and play choice for the Tormek; however, it is the coarsest wheel available.

If you are planning to grind a lot of knives from blanks, you should look into heavy duty 2x72 belt grinders. If you choose to go this route, be prepared to lay out some serious money.

If you already have a Tormek, you can get a 3X wheel for around $60US. Depending on how you mount the wheel, you might have almost nothing to another $60 in cost.The largest diameter 3X wheels are 8 inches (200mm). This will work with the T8 as well as any grinding wheel worn to eight inches. It is an exact for the T4. The wheel can be trued with the Tormek TT-50.

The 3X can be used with plain water, preserving the Tormek wet grinding environment.

Ken

[RickKrung]

I agree with CB and Ken.  Tormek grinding wheels are not the tool for shaping or heavy metal removal. 

I use both, a belt grinder and the very 64 grit Norton 3X wheel that Ken speaks of.  He sent his and it is one of my two "go to" methods.  I have a Viel 1x42 belt grinder with the Penn State variable speed motor.  Both are very effective, but are quite different from each other.  The Norton wheel is much more "Tormek-like" and much more controlled.  The belt grinder is more useful for tools that don't work or fit the Tormek well. 

It took quite a bit of work to get the belt grinder set up properly to work with Tormek knife jigs.  The Norton wheel was far faster and easier to set up, involving only adapting a bushing to mate the 1" arbor hole to the 12mm shaft. 

In my opinion, all of the Tormek grinding wheels are way too fine for speedy, effective bulk metal removal. 

Rick

[Ken S]

Rick,

Great minds (yours and mine    ) must think alike. One of my major regrets with my Tormek experience is never meeting Torgny Jansson (inventor of the Tormek who passed away around the time I was getting started). His influence still dominates the Tormek philosophy. I do not mean to be critical of the Tormek philosophy. It has many admirable qualities often lacking in other products:

No Tormek left behind. Replacement parts and technical support are available for ancient Tormeks. The latest innovations are compatible with the oldest Tormeks. The EZYlock stainless shafts are an example of this.

Jig controlable sharpening continues to evolve. Tormek leads the industry with this.

The basic idea of one grinding wheel which can be graded with the stone grader reflects an inventor who wanted to provide a simple yet versatile product.

All of this being stated with full respect, the philosophy has some limitations with present day expectations. One of them is the lack of a coarse grinding wheel. Neither "220 grit" with the SG or SB orthe "360 grit" with the diamond wheels is really coarse in the grinding world. The 46 grit Norton 3X wheels can offer that coarse wheel option. The classic SG wheel was designed to be a one wheel does it all. It does this reasonably well, although not as fine as the SJ or the Norton 3X.

I prefer the water cooled, dust and spark free Tormek environment to adapting a dusty dry grinder environment to use Tormek jigs.

I also like the converted Viel belt grinder. I have found it very compatible with the Tormek. The two machines complement each other.

Ken

[ega]

...
"I prefer the water cooled, dust and spark free Tormek environment to adapting a dusty dry grinder environment to use Tormek jigs."
...
So do I.
One disadvantage of using the Tormek jigs on a high speed grinder is that the jig works in a shower of sparks ie red hot metal and grinding dust. The justification for doing so is, of course, the relatively high speed of stock removal.
I would like to try the Norton 3X on the Tormek as recommended. I spent a few minutes on the Norton website trying unsuccessfully to find a 3X specification sheet with a recommended surface speed and information about water-cooled grinding. Amazon sell these wheels but, as is so often the case, give scant information.

[RickKrung]

...
"I prefer the water cooled, dust and spark free Tormek environment to adapting a dusty dry grinder environment to use Tormek jigs."
...
So do I.
One disadvantage of using the Tormek jigs on a high speed grinder is that the jig works in a shower of sparks ie red hot metal and grinding dust. The justification for doing so is, of course, the relatively high speed of stock removal.
I would like to try the Norton 3X on the Tormek as recommended. I spent a few minutes on the Norton website trying unsuccessfully to find a 3X specification sheet with a recommended surface speed and information about water-cooled grinding. Amazon sell these wheels but, as is so often the case, give scant information.

I think you will not find anything about surface speed and water cooled grinding in regard to the 3X wheels.  They are not designed or meant for that kind of use.  They are standard, high speed (3500 rpm) grinding wheels.  We have simply pirated them for use on Tormeks.  I think most any such coarse high speed grinding may work just as well as the 3X, I believe it may have been what was available.

If you could find one, I think a 10" dia. traditional grinding wheel would work better, closer to the size of the T7/T8 wheels, but I've not had any issues with the slightly worn down 8" that I got from Ken.

Rick

[jeffs55]

I have never used a Norton 3x grinding wheel that is made for use on a high speed grinder. Most high speed grinders run at about 3500 rpm. There is an alternative which is the Rikon "slow speed grinder". Slow is relative and only slow when compared to high speed. The Rikon is supposed to operate at about 1750 rpms. Whether or not this is better for some of you I have no idea. I just put it out there for your consideration. I have one of these machines and although it is slower than the traditional high speed grinder it will still produce sparks so do not buy it thinking otherwise. Like someone else said, a belt is the best way to go anyway. A round wheel is not shaped correctly to turn a bar of steel into a knife blade.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

Yes, the 3X wheels are primarily designed for high speed dry grinding. They perform very well this way. They also perform well when used wet with the Tormek. They are not ideal with the Tormek; however, for $50US, they work remarkably well. They start out with a substantial advantage, 46 grit.

Anyone wanting a serious belt grinder for a lot of knife making should expect to make a major investment. For a hobbiest wanting to try making a few knives, the 3X offers a low cost option. Worst case scenario, it makes a very good coarse wheel for the Tormek.

Ken