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#11

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by Brock O Lee - May 01, 2026, 12:18:22 AM

I have found that it is much easier to get low BESS scores when I sharpen at low angles (sub-15 dps). In my experience diamond stones tend to produce lower scores than the SG-250, and higher grit finishes (1000+) produce lower scores than lower grit finishes.

Just to make sure : when you talk about lower scores, do you mean lower BESS number or lower sharpness ?

I meant lower BESS scores.

To rephrase, I've noticed that the SE-250 (extra fine diamond wheel) gives me lower BESS scores (sharper edge) than the SG-250 (standard stone wheel), on the same kitchen knife (Spyderco MBS-26 steel similar to VG10), at the same angle, using the same technique.

I have not experimented enough to say this is definitive. At the moment I suspect it could be due to grit differences, or that one abrasive cuts a certain steel cleaner than the other, or something else?

That is going deep into the weeds... Take it as one data point from "a guy in his garage seeing a thing". 🙂

#12

Knife Sharpening / A new resource

Last post by Ken S - April 30, 2026, 07:30:11 PM

I like to encourage work by forum members, especially work which stays within the forum philosophy of being non commercial. Forum member, Eric Ho, has researched and produced a PDF which falls within these guidelines.

I had some initial reservations, namely that Eric does not sharpen presently with a Tormek. However, he does not write negatively about the Tormek. He also compares six different sharpeners and sharpening methods. One of these is our late, well respected member, Wootz  (Vadim Kriachuk of Knife Grinders Australia). Wootz was a longtime innovative Tormek user.

Eric included several prelated areas which I found interesting.  I was fascinated with his thoughts on CATRA testing, which tests longer sections of
a knife blade. He supports these thoughts with what I would consider a substantial investment in money,  test knives, and in actually sending these knives to CATRA for expensive testing.

I do not believe I will ever spend the money to actually send any knives to CATRA for testing, although Eric did a good job of explaining the testing procedure. I was glad to read about the testing.q

Eric discusses four factors in how long knives remain sharp, the most important being the bevel angle. His coverage seems fair and balanced, something I appreciate.

Eric's PDF is 29 pages, a very workable length. I have it loaded on my ipad and printed out. It is an interesting addition to my sharpening library.!     

Download link: https://be-sharp.io/2026/01/09/catra-testing-cutting-edge-retention-bess-knife-grinders-australia/

Ken

#13

General Tormek Questions / Re: Good Light

Last post by Rossy66 - April 30, 2026, 07:01:03 PM

I was lucky to find this, it's classified as a reading light but it's led with three colors and flexible.  It's perfect for sharpening.

#14

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by tgbto - April 30, 2026, 02:49:17 PM

I have found that it is much easier to get low BESS scores when I sharpen at low angles (sub-15 dps). In my experience diamond stones tend to produce lower scores than the SG-250, and higher grit finishes (1000+) produce lower scores than lower grit finishes.

Just to make sure : when you talk about lower scores, do you mean lower BESS number or lower sharpness ?

I used to chase BESS scores initially. It is a good tool to measure progress while you develop a technique. After a while I got too lazy to fire up the BESS tester, but I still do occasionally. In my experience you quickly get a feel for a sharp burr-free edge by how effortlessly it glides through phone book or cigarette paper, you don't even need to test.

I wholeheartedly agree, once you get comfortable with the process, there is little need for systematic BESS testing. When I get a new, exotic steel I usually test it before/After.  Plus high BESS does not necessarily translate to higher edge retention, so I use it only as a reference to see if a given sharpening is consistent with the lot, if I have a doubt.

Although this may be the case in some instances, but for me, there have been times that I'm finishing off with the above numbers, but still running the knife through my microscope and it clearly shows no burr is present.

In my experience some steels never get under 130 BESS. I have a few french Sabatier knives that won't get under 150, 130 at the very best, no matter what. And they get back to a lofty 250 after a few uses in the kitchen. Those I don't trust to care for knives get to use them, but my 8 y.o. son uses my japanese knives.

Also, I've experienced some situations (edge leading with SJ-250, on soft steels) where there is still a layer of very soft steel at the apex of the edge. It is however invisible under a typical optical microscope.

#15

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Brock O Lee - April 29, 2026, 11:04:52 PM

That sounds like a massive burr, when it is visible as you hone...

I'd suggest that you will likely get better end results when you minimise the size of the burr on the stones, with very light alternating passes before you deburr/hone. I'd say if you can see a burr with the naked eye at arms length under normal shop lightling it is likely too large.

When I hone free hand on the leather wheel, I find this to be useful to find the approximate angle to hone at
- start at a shallow angle, so that you contact the bevel shoulder, not the apex.
- increase the angle until you make full contact with the bevel on the wheel. The contact feels smooth at this stage.
- increase the angle a fraction to hone the very apex. Contact will feel less smooth at this stage.
- the steps above take only a second or two.

Err on the side of very light pressure and too shallow angle, rather than too much pressure and too steep angle. It helps to avoid rounding the apex. You can always come back for another pass at a slightly steeper angle if you did not get the desired result the first time.

As a side note, I do not like the composite rubber wheel much for deburring. Wootz estimated the embedded grit size to be +-30 micron, if I remember correctly. This is very large. In comparison, alu oxide (and Tormek compound) grit is more like 3 micron. To put that into perspective, a very sharp edge has an apex radius of less than 1 micron.

#16

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by Columbo - April 29, 2026, 10:56:45 PM

Just to add my pennies worth. I think Bess scores in the range of 150 (130/140/150/160/170) indicate that the burr has not been completely removed.

Although this may be the case in some instances, but for me, there have been times that I'm finishing off with the above numbers, but still running the knife through my microscope and it clearly shows no burr is present.

But right, but I also must add like the gentleman in Australia Baz who uses a kangaroo tail as the end process. I too can definitely drop the numbers by 30 or 40 points by carefully maintaining an angle and stropping the tail up and down wow glued to a 2 inch piece of hardwood.

#17

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to sharpen the inline ...

Last post by Rossy66 - April 29, 2026, 05:26:15 PM

Looks amazing but what a bizarre looking edge   

#18

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Rossy66 - April 29, 2026, 04:36:30 PM

It may be due to the steel used in some less expensive knives. These knives are extremely hard to sharpen to a fine edge; the burr essentially changes sides when you try and hone it.

Agree. In my experience "cheap knives" often means:
- non-ideal steel chemistry and/or
- non-ideal heat treatment protocols and/or
- non-ideal hardened steel structure at the edge and/or
- lower than ideal hardness (sub 60 HRC).

This all shows up at the burr. These burrs tend to be soft and "gummy", flopping from side-to-side, refusing to cut off cleanly. This results in incomplete deburring, sub-par fine edge and bad edge longevity.

It is striking how easily properly heat treated but hard pocket-knife steels deburr in comparison. Steels like CPM-SPY27 (@62 HRC), CPM-Magnacut (@64 HRC), CPM-15V (@67 HRC) etc. Almost no effort required.

I have noticed that when controlled honing, sometimes I see super fine bits of metal flying off the edge which I assume is part of the burr but I don't see that on all knives I sharpen so I have been relying on pulling the edge across my nail which seems to work most of the time.

#19

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Rossy66 - April 29, 2026, 04:32:20 PM

In my experience, the composite wheel has less feedback than the leather wheel with the compound. Still, John's advice is excellent advice.

When honing with the composite wheel, I prefer to add a few drops of water or the friction feels too high. Also, to be honest I don't think your edge will roll over due to the angle being (reasonably) too high, or the pressure being a (reasonable) bit too high. What I found is I tended to be apply a more constant pressure and moving more slowly when using a jig, therefore being much more efficient.

You may learn a lot by conducting a few experiments :
- If you hone a knife freehand, test it, then hone it righ afterwards at a controlled angle, then retest it : does sharpness increase ? If yes, you are not dulling the edge freehand, you are not honing efficiently.
- If you do it the other way around, does sharpness decrease ? If yes, you may be misjudging your honing angle *a lot* when freehanding. Using a sharpie might help.

You could also confirm your findings by looking at your edge under a microscope after freehanding : do you see a burr ? Does cutting a taunt nylon wire (BESS or DIY) leave a dent in the edge ? Those would confirm that freehand honing is not efficient, or not enough.


Also, honing with a jig but not honing enough might be just what it takes for the knife to feel sharp when testing it on a sheet of paper. But there will still be a burr. If you don't hone enough freehand, the burr will be there but will not have such a consistent angle, so it will not feel as sharp. I feel that I have to hone for a longer time when using the composite wheel compared to the leather wheel.

Some great points and I will be doing those tests this afternoon. The sharpie idea is fantastic and I can't believe I didn't think of that. I have a microscope in my sharpening van but it was to see any any small chips and at 60 years old, my eyes are not as good as they once were so I will use it to check the findings.

#20

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Brock O Lee - April 29, 2026, 03:45:56 PM

It may be due to the steel used in some less expensive knives. These knives are extremely hard to sharpen to a fine edge; the burr essentially changes sides when you try and hone it.

Agree. In my experience "cheap knives" often means:
- non-ideal steel chemistry and/or
- non-ideal heat treatment protocols and/or
- non-ideal hardened steel structure at the edge and/or
- lower than ideal hardness (sub 60 HRC).

This all shows up at the burr. These burrs tend to be soft and "gummy", flopping from side-to-side, refusing to cut off cleanly. This results in incomplete deburring, sub-par fine edge and bad edge longevity.

It is striking how easily properly heat treated but hard pocket-knife steels deburr in comparison. Steels like CPM-SPY27 (@62 HRC), CPM-Magnacut (@64 HRC), CPM-15V (@67 HRC) etc. Almost no effort required.