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Messages - 3D Anvil

#17
This is where it pays to have a goniometer, so you can measure the edge angle on both sides.  Assuming they're different, and you want to maintain that, there are a couple of approaches you could take.  One would be to adjust the projection distance from one side to the other and the other would be to adjust the USB height.  Shouldn't be a huge deal if you minimize the number of times you switch sides, i.e., don't switch until you have a full burr on the first side.
#18
Quote from: cbwx34 on July 21, 2023, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: HaioPaio on July 21, 2023, 12:50:23 PMLots of assumptions about the speed of that leather disc wheel have been made here.
The RPM control at the machine seems to be set to a low RPM.
I could not find any information about the actual RPM in that video.
So, I do not know if it runs fast.

Well, here's the grinder (a Shop Fox W1839 that it says runs from 2000-3400 rpm), that he's apparently running in the middle of the range based on this

 ::)

You also have to consider that it's a 6" wheel, so it will be considerably slower (feet per second) than an 8" or 10" wheel rotating at the same speed.
#19
An alternative would be using the RBS-140 jig (T-2) in conjunction with a front vertical base, as demonstrated by Hanns here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFgFPrZfzZM
#20
Quote from: tgbto on July 17, 2023, 08:51:28 AM
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 15, 2023, 05:58:47 AMYep, that was my conclusion.  I don't think the leather belts create near enough heat to affect the temper of the edge.

My two cents : I sometimes hone on the WS Elite/BGA with the leather belt, and I don't expect much heat production that way. In the video by the OP however, the speed seems much higher (and the high-volume high-pitch sound produced seems to back this up).


I agree.  The leather wheel he's using sounds a lot like a paper wheel on the grinder, and I find that paper wheels introduce a lot more heat than leather belts, even with my 1/2 speed grinder.
#21
 Thanks, man!  The irony is that I'm always on my wife not to drag the blade sideways across the cutting board.  However!  If you pay attention, you'll see that (I think) I only used the blade side that way one time.  Otherwise, I'm using the spine-side of the blade to collect the cut food.
#22
For what it's worth, here is the video of my honing edge retention test: https://youtu.be/A8xEQqrjbDM
#23
Yep, that was my conclusion.  I don't think the leather belts create near enough heat to affect the temper of the edge.

As far as the change in BESS score goes, it didn't surprise me.  These were at the low end of Victorinox's line, costing $21 each.  They don't even state what the steel is, but it's probably 8cr4mov or something along those lines.  Maybe 55-58 hrc?  Also, the average factory edge comes in around 210 BESS, so the end result wasn't far off from that.
#24
So I did the test I mentioned earlier: two identical Victorinox 6" knives, both sharpened on Tormek.  One was honed/stropped on a rock hard felt wheel, also on the Tormek.  The other was honed/stropped on a Work Sharp Elite using leather belts, at the lowest available speed.  In both cases, the first pass was at the sharpening angle +2° and the second pass was at the sharpening angle (15°). 

After some hand stropping to equalize the results, both knives measured 105g on the BESS tester. 

Test consisted of slicing up 5 carrots and 1 sweet potato per knife, on a wood cutting board.

Conclusion: no significant difference.  The average of three BESS tests in the cutting area came out to 245 for one knife and 247 for the other. 

I'm going to put it up on Youtube when I have a chance.
#25
I faced the same question when I started out with Tormek and got essentially the same advice.  I think it was good advice.  The SG stone is more forgiving than diamond or CBN wheels, and particularly so if you're using ones with sharp corners.  Those corners can do some damage if you inadvertently tilt whatever you're sharpening.  Diamon/CBN also requires a lighter touch.

One thing about the SG wheel...  Yes, you can grade it to 200 or 1000 grit, or anywhere in between, but it will always gravitate back to its native grit, which I'd guesstimate to be somewhere in the 400-600 range.

In other words, you may grade it to 200 in order to reprofile or repair an edge, but it won't stay at 200 long if you are applying firm pressure. 

#26
I haven't tried them, but I believe Schleif Junkies sells them.

Also, there are resin-bonded CBN wheels available on Amazon. 

In both cases I think they're only available in high grits.  For example, the Amazon wheels are available in 2500, 5000, and 10,000 grit.

I've been seriously eyeing the 5k CBN wheel myself, but at $600, they don't come cheap.
#27
As far as the video goes, I think he could have saved himself a lot of time by just running the blade across his thumbnail to determine if all the chips had been removed.

I don't think you can guesstimate a BESS score from the paper test.
#28
To me the issue with the temperature lacquers was that they were a millimeter or two back from the apex, where the area of concern is really the last 5-10 micrometers.  No way of knowing what the temperature gradient is in that critical area.  That's why I think the only practical way to test it out is to see how the edges perform in real-world use.
#29
I surely will.  I ordered two identical 6" Victorinox kitchen knives this morning for the testing.  I'll probably start by sharpening each a few times just on the Tormek to eliminate any factory belt burn.

What do y'all think would be a good cut test?  Maybe slice up an equal number of carrots and take BESS readings to compare?  My wife, who's the cook in the house, suggests sweet potatoes. 
#30
Quote from: Thy Will Be Done on July 09, 2023, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 07, 2023, 06:43:22 PMAdding the grinder to the equation certainly introduces the risk of overheating, but I doubt he did any damage with those two quick passes on a leather wheel.  It's also a variable speed grinder he's using.

You are certainly entitled to hold an opinion that it 'should be fine' but the reality is that the apex is so small (and most importantly has virtually no mass) that it can literally overheat in a fraction of a second and you would have no way of even detecting it.  In my view, combining this with a Tormek is rather silly considering the whole point is to guarantee the edge doesn't overheat.  You cannot do that with any non-cooled powered equipment, a guarantee, that is.  They cannot know and neither can you, period. 

I share your concern, but my opinion wasn't formed out of thin air, but rather from a review of Vadim's extensive testing of edges and specific comparisons of blades sharpened on Tormek alone, versus in combination with paper and felt wheels on grinders, versus, only on grinders, etc.  This is also based on my own experience sharpening hundreds of knives -- mostly using Tormek to apex the blade, followed by honing on leather belts with various compounds.  In my experience, the leather belts, at the slowest speed of a Work Sharp Elite belt grinder, produce significantly less heat than paper wheels or felt on a half-speed grinder.  That said, I haven't tried a leather wheel on a grinder, so I can't speak to that specifically.

I think I'll do some side-by-side testing of my own, just for peace of mind.  Will report my results when I get them.