Messages

I will echo the endorsement of the Sabitoru rust eraser (I have a slight preference for the coarse over the fine version), and it might be that other rust erasers (abrasive-filled rubber) would work as well as the Sabitoru.  The Sabitoru is a favourite among flat stone sharpeners for cleaning stones between flatenings; as Darrell noted with his SJ, it cleans stones up like new.

Gord

I believe the final solution will be one or perhaps a series of more advanced, self centering jigs. This will be a demanding order for Tormek. I would guess it will sell for a much higher price and in considerably smaller quantities if Tormek decides to go forward with such a jig.
Ken

I think it is reasonable to expect this of Tormek, and the price should not be out of line with the rest of the equipment.  I have heard that Tormek wants to get deeper into the knife sharpening market (see the T4 Bushcraft), and it is my view that if you want to be a serious contender in this field you need to have a good self-centring jig.  Other systems have them.  The TSProf has a good self-centring jig on a rod (like a Tormek jig), I can't see why Tormek couldn't do this.

Gord

There's been a couple of threads that talk about the SJ wheel chipping while truing.  I found one HERE... I thought there was another, but can't find it right now. 

The link that CB provides above takes you to a thread with a post from Wootz that itself has two further links, including one to a typically detailed post by Wootz himself.

By the way, from picture that texaspro posted, I think that the stone has only lost a millimetre or so in diameter, I think it could be fully restored with the sort of slow and gentle approach discussed in this thread and with the special care discussed in the threads that CB linked to.

Gord

I am still waiting.  There seems to be some problem at the manufacturing end because the Tormek website first promised resupply by December, then February, and now it does not predict any date, just "we currently have delivery delays".  My Tormek reseller says that he can't get any answers or even a date when they might be expected.  We know Tormek has high standards, and in a situation like this, when no product is coming out, you wonder if they are having problems getting acceptable product.

Gord

I have ordered one, I think Wolfgang's price is fair, he could easily charge more.  The cost of shipping to Canada adds another $31-$45 depending on method, which is annoying but, as Ken says, that is just the cost of international shipping.  There will be another $10 sales tax and $10 tax collection fee when it is delivered, a purely domestic issue.  So, a $100 USB.

Gord

In the discussion above, Ken noted the runout tolerances for the diamond wheels, and then the discussion moved to the similar importance of the flatness tolerances. 

So, I asked Tormek Support what the flatness tolerances were.  The initial response I got had to do with the evenness of the diamond surface covering (the spec provided by Support was "0,10 mm after initial break in".) 

OK, good to know, but not what I was looking for.  I followed-up and specifically requested the machined flatness of the wheel--this to me is a critical specification.  As discussed above, if the machined surface has ridges or bumps, it doesn't matter how even the layer of diamonds is.

The response from Tormek Support was that this specification was confidential.  Huh? I questioned Support about this, noting that diamond plate manufacturers all give this spec because it is important.  So, I asked for the spec, but it has been over three weeks and I have not heard from Support.

As I have said, these wheels are doubtless produced on a lathe or some other milling machine and the flatness from that process can be good, so I am not expecting a problem here.  But I am disappointed in Tormek Support's response.  It is nonsense to me that a performance specification would be confidential.  (I also wish they would answer their emails, this is the second time I have contacted Support and the second time I have been left waiting indefinitely for an answer.)

Gord

I also do a few light passes at the end of the session on the fine grit, but before going to the honing wheel, I draw the edge of the blade lightly over the end grain of a piece of wood I have beside the machine.  This is easy on the edge, and I find it to be the most effective way of extracting the remains of the burr.  I forget where I learned this but I think it is a common technique, and once I tried it I have always done it.

Gord

Interesting, I have one of those T-shaped diamond wheel dressers and they are very coarse.  The video does not have subtitles, but going by the sequence in the video (he blunts the gouge on the side of the wheel, then does a coarse grading with the SP-650 stone grader, then uses the grinding wheel dresser), I am guessing that he wanted to further coarsen the stone beyond what he could get from the stone grader.  And yet, he seems to finish his work on that grade, which is odd.

By the way, the comments to the video are pretty funny, the average Russian is not impressed with the 50,000 ruble price tag (about US$750).  I watch a lot of Ukrainian and Russian wood carving videos, and they have very resourceful but crude ways of sharpening (typically something like running a rough stone off an old washing machine motor, then a quick lapping on sandpaper and back to the work).  It is humbling to see how beautifully they carve with very elementary equipment.  I am not predicting that Russia will be a big market for Tormek.

Gord

Thanks for the tip Gord
But will 200mm be long enough?

Yes, I have found them to be plenty long.  In fact, for all operations I have done with a FVB, most of the rods are inboard and only 2-3cm extend outside the collars.

For the box, I used hollow aluminium box bar in SAE dimensions: 1"x2"x1/8" thick.  The shortest piece I could get was enough for about six FVBs 

Gord

As CB says, the Front Vertical Base is easy to make.  As a small tweak (but one I liked), I used 12x200mm stainless steel bolts (with the heads cut off) instead of 12mm threaded rod.  That way, you have a short length of thread where you bolt the rods to the rectangular box, but smooth rods to slide through the collar mounts on the machine.  (I don't see the need for a fine adjustment on these rods, so I don't miss having threaded rod.)

Gord

I was thinking some more about this product. 

We are all used to putting something like packing tape on our knives to prevent the jig from scratching it: that is about .05mm, so probably not an amount that is relevant to centring.  But most of my kitchen knives are about 1.25-1.75mm thick where I clamp them, so they could use a little shimming to be centred in the Tormek knife jigs. 

As long as the 1mm felt pads compress to about 0.5mm, they would improve or be neutral for the centring knives like mine.  For a knife that is thicker than 1.75mm, you would be worsening the centring, albeit only by a small amount.

Gord

I just wonder about centering.
Ken

Hmm, yes, centring will be something to think about.  The jigs are machined to be centred with blade that is 2mm thick where it is clamped.  So, it seems to me that when you add a spacer (felt or whatever) to the fixed half of the jig, you will move a 2mm thick blade off centre (and a >2mm blade further off centre), and this won't be offset by having the same spacer on the moveable half of the jig.

Presumably the felt will compress, so if you have a blade that is less than 2mm thick, it could help with the centring.

Gord

Sigs, I don't know where you have been looking, but there are certainly CBN wheels that are not twice the cost of the diamond wheels (try D-Way, Woodtuners Wonders).  But there are advantages to the Tormek diamond wheels, so they might be best for you.  There are supply chain issues, they are still out of stock in my part of the world.

Gord

I have a feeling that this has been discussed before, but here is how I deal with the issue.

Most blades are tapered from the spine to the secondary bevel (or right to the edge in a full flat grind), and so I agree that registering the AngleMaster on the face of such a blade will not result in the blade being sharpened at the angle indicated on the AngleMaster.  I use one of the following fixes, each of which can be used in a pinch without a bevel protractor:

1. If you have a typical kitchen knife, adjust the angle that you set on the AngleMaster (add about 3 degrees on the AngleMaster), or

2. If you can't make a reasonable guess at the degree of the taper, use a flat "proxy blade" in the knife jig (e.g. a flat piece of metal or a credit card) to set the angle (at the exact desired grinding angle), then put the knife in the jig.

Gord

Thanks for the update Ken.  I am glad that Ken Rizza has spoken about this with you.  I think that he is being too conservative with his strict warnings against using the wheels wet, when it is really just rust that is the problem, not water.  But like you, I can see his conundrum: customers are sure to fail or forget to use and antioxidant additive and then complain to him about the rust.

As I have noted before, I got my CBN wheels to use dry (to keep the raw wood knife handles dry) but use them wet on tools that I don't mind getting wet.  I have been surprised to find that I don't mind using the wheels dry.  It runs against my instinct, but I have gotten used to the sound and the grind scratch pattern looks the same to me.  I don't sense any appreciable airborne particulates and I get the feeling that they grind faster when dry.  But that might just be me reading my assumption into the result, I haven't tried to test it.

It is good to hear about the bushings, but I was on the verge of justifying a hobbyist metal lathe to make x" to 12mm bushings; now I will have to conjure up some other pressing need.

Gord