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Just to follow up,  Stig has been in touch,  and I'm now a lot less stressed, although my pile of blunt chisel and plane blades hasn't gone down as fast as I'd hoped by this point in tiime.   I'm confident that I'll get caught up fairly quickly.   There's still a little question over the USB but I hope that I'll get that resolved soon.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I'm finding that freehand honing is relatively straightforward.  What I tend to do is to start with the the top face of the chisel trapezoid, for want of a better description, on the honing wheel near the top at approximately horizontal, then I gradually move down the wheel, keeping the chisel level, until I hear the sound where I know that the full bevel is in contact with the honing wheel, and maintain a steady pressure for a few seconds.     As long as I'm careful I can get a perfect microbevel which is sharp enough to shave my arm hair with.  That's my sharpness test.  If it's not sharp enough to shave, then it ain't sharp!

Thought I may as well share this.  Based on the original dimensions, made from 18mm ply and some silver-fronted chipboard offcutthat was supplied screwed to a shipping pallet.  The whole unit is glued together with Franklin Titebond Original, with the exception of the top half of the double plinth, (2 sheets of ply) which houses the bolt for the rotating base I devised, and was screwed to the first plinth (screws hidden underneath the rotating base)

Hi Guys.  Apologies for the lack of communications over the last few days.

I'm pleased to report that I'm starting to make some progress.

However I'd like to address one of the main issues that I've been harping on about.  Namely the USB, and the play on the legs.    Jeff's advice to press down on the microadjust leg has been in part causing me a large proportion of my problems with the skew.

Last Thursday I packed up the T-7, a 2" square, a Sharpie, and a tray of 4 x 1" Chisels, 4 x 3/4" Chisels and 5 x 2" Plane blades from some No 4 Stanley Smoothing planes  and took them home.
I set up the Tormek outside on my Patio on my old Black & Decker Workmate, had a Barbeque and a couple of beers.

My work area in the school has no natural light which makes seeing what is actually going on more difficult, but outside in the natural daylight it's a lot easier.

Anyway.  here's two pictures for you to look at.

The first is after locking the USB with pressure on the Microadjust


Here's the photo after putting pressure on the other leg and locking:



So it's clear that the play is having an effect on the alignment of the chisel.

Once I'd discovered this, my results made a bit more sense. 
In the fairly lengthy phone conversation I had with Rob  (Thanks again, Rob!)  I gleaned a lot of useful information.  Perhaps the most useful two words he said was "sore thumbs".  Which gave me a lot of information regarding the required pressure.

What I discovered with the post-barbeque evening sharpening session was a methodology which has allowed me to get a very slight convex edge, which is reliably, and repeatably square.
Whether it was the outdoor atmosphere or the Stella Artois, I don't know.  However, what I've been doing is what I can only describe as 'Chasing the Curve' of the edge.   Perhaps I'm checking the edge with a square a little too often, but I'm grinding for no more than 20 seconds before removing the SE-76 from the USB and checking with a square.    Then I'm applying pressure on the subsequent grind where the high spot was, before removing again and re-checking.  I find that I don't need the sharpie for anything other than the initial check, and can chase the edge until it's close enough. 

The other things I've discovered are that any bizarre grinding behaviour is also likely to be down to partial glazing of the stone surface, which seems to be more critical than ensuring that it is perfectly flat - as extra pressure seems to compensate better for out-of-true than it does for finer grit areas on the stone.  Once I'd learned that, a quick regrading seems to help.

However,  things that I've learned, are things I've had to learn myself, and weren't covered in any of the videos I've watched.  And if anything can be learned from this whole saga it's that the instructions provided on the DVD don't tell anything like the whole story of how to overcome the types of issues I've encountered as a new user to the Tormek system, especially as the DVD gives the impression that it's far, far, simpler than the reality I've encountered.

I don't know if my methodology is correct, but at least I'm getting somewhere.  On that first session I got all the chisels and Plane blades I brought home done, and another Clifton 2 3/8" plane blade accurate enough that I'd use it for jointing spruce or hardwood boards for guitar making.

Today I managed to do around 7 x 1" chisels in well under an hour.   I'm going to try some 1/2" chisels tomorrow.... 

A further update.

The ONLY way I can get anything remotely approaching a square edge is by repeatedly skewing the chisel in the SE-76 away from the registration edge and adjusting this skew.

the latest result was when looking down on the chisel in the jig, back of the chisel up, handle towards me that the chisel was pointing slightly left. using a square there was about 1.5mm gap at the top of the square to the side of the chisel.

What does that tell you?

After some more experimenting this morning, I am now convinced that there is something wrong.
I've squared the chisel in the jig, checked the usb is level with the wheel, set the height without putting any pressure on either leg when tightening.

After taking a few passes, the sharpie is wearing away on the same side.  I then put massive finger pressure on the side of the bevel that was untouched, and  the sharpie  ink is still not wearing off where I'm putting pressure.


I tried jigging up the skew chisel jig to run freehand against the usb but I managed to skew in the opposite direction because, in my opinion this jig is fundamentally flawed in design as well. there's no way to reference the side of the chisel is square in the jig, so there's no way on this earth I could guarantee that the skew angle I think I'm getting is the one I am actually getting.   
It is impossible to get a chisel level when the thumbscrew on the top is so far over to one side that it introduces a turning moment on the chisel as soon as it is tightened.  it doesn't help that the v-jaws dont grip the  sides of the chisel properly either.

I'm out of ideas and patience.

possibly, yes.  I don't have a home workshop at present, so it's weather dependent as I'll have to use the patio! 

Didn't realise you were in Scotland.  One thing that occurs to me.  Why do you need the whole bevel ground?  If your students are just paring mostly then could you not get away with a (say) 1 mm microbevel at a higher grind than the existing bevel (say 30 degrees)?

Then you would have significantly less grinding to do (I'm not a fan of grinding entire bevels with the Tormek), the edge would still be sharp and more hand controllable to keep straight.

But coming back to the original issue, are you saying you're unable to get the usb to be parallel to the wheel even after you've trued it with the diamond dresser, even by applying judicious pressure on the usb legs at tightening time?

Because if you cant do that then there must surely be something wrong with the usb threads or the inserts into which they're threaded?

All of the chisels I've been working on have been ground at random angles, and all have badly convex edges.  The previous tech used a worn oilstone as well which didn't help either.   I'm trying to get them all uniform, as I feel it's fairest on all the kids that have to use them that they get consistent chisels.

After truing, I measured the wheel edge using the side as the reference for my square.  I'd need to re-do it and check with the usb again to be 100% I'm not giving misinformation.

the threaded leg is at 90% to the bar, and the bar itself seems straight too.

Is it possible that the truing tool itself is out of alignment?

Just to clarify, I wasn't using the stone grader  directly after truing.  it was when I checked the stone with a square later on (after a few gradings) that I discovered the convex surface.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.   I've got a feeling that our IT policies here won't allow skype or other similar.  The school itself is in a black hole for mobile/cell reception too.  I had to hold the phone in one spot long enough to upload a couple of pictures to photobucket, as that's blocked as well... The point is that despite these IT obstacles, I managed to circumvent them and get some pictures into the other thread!

I'm hopeful that someone will recognise the grinding pattern I'm getting and be able to pinpoint the trouble.

[any]

Also, I'm currently of no mind to put the grading stone anywhere near the wheel, as there is no way to guarantee that I'm not going to take it out of true at this stage, and undo the work of the truing tool and I KNOW that it has curved the grinding edge of the wheel badly before, to the point that it needed 8 passes with the truing tool.

You have to use the stone grader to dress the surface of the grindstone.  If it's putting the grindstone out of true then you have a defective grindstone.

Perhaps I'm looking at this from the wrong angle.    I'm used to flattening Waterstones to tolerances where if there is any light whatsoever showing between the surface and a square, then it's not flat enough.

The last time I  tried putting force on the stone grader I succeeded in curving the surface of the grindstone,  I can only presume because it rocked slightly or I put too much pressure on one side at a time?   Am I using too much force?

To me the phrase "Apply Light Pressure" in the instructions is somewhat meaningless.  There is no point of reference. Is it enough pressure to say, leave a thumbprint in a blob of blutac? or do I want to make a dent or full thumb impression?

Kenny, where are you located?  I wonder if there's anyone nearby who could help.

I'm near Glasgow.  The school itself is in East Renfrewshire but  I live in North Lanarkshire.

I find it difficult to understand why you would pull up or push down on the end of the usb. Of course due to the necessary difference between the inside diameter of the holding sleeves and the outer diameter of the usb legs there must be a small difference and any external pressure will cause the usb to cant by a small amount. Why would you do the above?

If the usb and the wheel surface are not bang on parallel then you will have great difficulty in getting anything square, so why induce and error by applying pressure to the usb?

Jeff the Moderator has already advised, and so did I as per yesterday's procedure, that when setting the height, apply downward pressure (it is only finger pressure) directly above the threaded leg and this causes the usb to sit on the micro-adjuster. Clamp that leg, then the other.

As I pointed out in my previous post, when I did as Jeff advised and ran the truing tool across the surface I got a gap at the outer edge of the stone when I put my 2" square against it. By gap I mean over 6 thou at the outer edge, which tapers to nothing 3/4" in from the edge.  By putting pressure on the other leg before clamping and running the truing tool I do not get the same result.

Every single chisel yields this result.

I'd welcome some thoughts.

Great post, Mike.  I had just sat down at my computer with me SE-76 in hand.  The front surface was a bit rough.  A couple minutes with a six inch second cut mill file and the roughness was gone.  Another five minutes removed a ridge in the inside rear surface.  My method seems adequate; Mike's is superior.

Kenny, you seem quite stressed.  Have you tried slowly sharpening  a 3/4" chisel?  I hate to sound like a broken record, but all you write about are out of square quarter inch chisels. If you take the time to work through the bug with an easier wider chisel, with practice you will soon be up to speed.  Once you get the hang of it, I don't think you will have any trouble meeting your deadline.  Change your mindset to doing the easiest tool first, one at a time.  Think just one tool. With practice you should be able to sharpen most chisels in ten to fifteen minutes. Do the easiest ones first.

Ken

Yes,  I've just tried a 3/4" chisel.  First I trued the stone.  I applied force to the micro adjust leg before I tightened the screws, and made several passes.  Then I put my 2" square on the surface.  The 6 thou gap at the outer edge to about 3/4" in from the edge was not acceptable. so I reset the support by putting pressure on the non micro-adjust leg.  This cured the mjajority of the gap but I still have a very gap at the edge.

Next I tried Mike's lapping of the SE76 face with a brand new block of granite, and papers up to 1200 grit. 
Once I was happy with that I squared the 3/4" chisel in the jig using my 2" square to the front face, and put it on the T-7.

I put hardly any pressure at all, and made a few passes. and you know what.  I'm still getting a considerable  skew to the right ( handle towards me, looking down on the chisel from above).   and I'm utterly fed up.  I simply cannot waste any more time on something that clearly does not perform as the marketing hype claims.  The fact that there are so many things to check and things that could interfere with the operation that the instructional information does not cover causes me huge concern.

Hi Ken, Just a couple of points on that before I hit the hay. 
Many of my plane blades here are very badly convex - think compass planes.  These were caused by a very worn Al-Ox 16" flat oilstone grinding wheel (Viceroy Sharpedge Machine)  the previous technician just went with it.   I'm more of a craftsman and know how important a sharp edge is, and have had the wheel replaced in the last few months.   There is play in the tool-rest arm but  I'm going to need a 3/4"  UNC TAP to make a new part.

Fortunately none of the chisels are struck very often, it's mostly paring and slicing of softwood and light hardwood like Meranti, so I've been going with 25 degrees.

However my own Clifton blade WAS square before I started and it was skewed a full mm across it's 2 3/8" length by using the T-7 and SE-76.  It was close to being really sharp when I started and it took me weeks to sort it out, in between other things.  To speed things up I had to use the viceroy to regrind the primary bevel before I started again.

To be honest, 90% of things I've sharpened have been skewed.  it can't surely be all down to me getting it monumentally wrong nearly every time?

The thing is, I HAD plenty of time to sort out 200 chisels, and the plane blades.  I'm now half way through the six week window when there are no pupils in the school, and  following the instructions and turning out another skewed chisel that should be square is what has been happening.  Now I think I don't have time to recover, even if I was to cut my losses and revert back to Japanese waterstones.

Also, I'm currently of no mind to put the grading stone anywhere near the wheel, as there is no way to guarantee that I'm not going to take it out of true at this stage, and undo the work of the truing tool and I KNOW that it has curved the grinding edge of the wheel badly before, to the point that it needed 8 passes with the truing tool.

I'm also angry, and extremely stressed about it.  According to the instructions and the videos it's touted as being really simple and quick.  I'm feeling like a total klutz.   The reality is that there are so many variables that could cause the problems I'm having, but I have to go through an excruciating process to work out which one; by which time something else I'd previously ruled out might be back in the equation.


Moving back to Robin's post,  The only time I've had success is by putting the chisel in the middle of the jig as suggested.  I'm having to adjust the chisel several times to get it square.  There's no accuracy with trying to align it in the jig with a square as I don't have a straight reference edge   as the front of the jig has that bead.

My point about the Universal support is that it is possible to align or misalign (at this stage I still don't know which) it by putting pressure on the leg without the micro adjust before tightening both screws.  Yet nobody has taken me up on this and I'm feeling that it's being glossed over.   it's not when the height is adjusted. it's when locking it in position. 

To over exaggerate the phenomenon, I'd like somebody to loosen the locking screws, torque the support bar either by putting pressure on the leg without the micro adjust ( the left one if the power switch is to the rear of the machine) or by pulling the outer edge of the support bar up and locking the non-adjust leg first.   Once it's in that position, I'd like someone to grind a bevel and report back whether it is square.   Then I'd like them to loosen the support locking screws again, put downward pressure on the outer edge of the bar and re-lock as before and run the same grinding test.

If neither of these cause any difference to the square of the bevel,  then I've clearly got something not right with my machine, because the difference between them on mine when the support bar is touching the wheel is visible, a gap of around 1mm, and it seems to be causing some of the skew.

What I'm asking is to make sure that I'm aligning the support correctly before I go at it with the truing tool again tomorrow. once the wheel is trued, I can eliminate that and move on to the next thing, as I think the problems are not limited to one factor.