Messages

Rhino, I'm glad you finally realized you need a drill sharpening jig to sharpen your cleaver.  Maybe I'll tune up my faithful cleaver.  I use it for both red and green cabbage.  Would you recommend two different holes, and what sizes?

Ken

This is getting very interesting.  Very good posts, Mike and Robin.

I don't believe the Tormek was originally designed to be a precision tool.  By that I mean to work within acceptable tolerances to a machinist or tool and die maker.  That is nothing negative against the Tormek.  If is was designed that way, it would probably cost $6000 or much more instead of $600.  It does provide a high level of repeatability and accuracy at a reasonable price.

That stated, I don't think the original idea foresaw the versatility the Tormek has today.  Ten years ago, while chugging along nicely sharpening knives, chisels and plane blades very well, who would have imagined being able to customize four facet edges on drill bits, let alone retouching carbide bits?  Who would have imagined interchangeable grinding wheels?

My workaday  bench planes are century old Stanley Bedrocks I have owned for forty years.  They have served me well, and I would not trade them for new Lie-Nielsen or Veritas planes.  Are the old Bedrocks the equal of today's premium planes?  Certainly not.  However, with skill and some fine tuning they can get very close.

I believe that, like the old Bedrocks and Baileys, the Tormek can get closer to the precision of an industrial grinder.  Skill and experience are certainly the main ingredients.  Jeff is certainly the example of that.  there is no substitute for years of day in, day out using the tools.  I have no doubt that Jeff is continually honing his skills and not just going through the motions.  (Read the "sweet spot" post in wheel alignment.)

We can all work on "operator error on inexperience".  We would do well to also think like machinists.  We certainly don't need lab accuracy granite surface plates.  We would be very well served by a good "B" grade small surface plate. (B grade is typically used on the machine shop floor for workaday tasks.)  I agree with Mike about Starrett quality.  If you have not used a Starrett Satin Chrome rule, you don't know what a fine rule can do.  Buy a six inch Satin Chrome 3R graduated rule with end gradations.  You will use it all the time and love it.

Back to Tormek.  I think Mike's idea of tuning the surface of the SE-76 is a very solid improvement.  How much of an improvement?  I don't know, but within the area of worthwhile.  Add it to careful dressing of the wheel and checking the alignment of the Universal Support Bar and we are getting closer to a precision tool.  Truing the front surface is a one time operation, like flattening and polishing the back of a chisel.  It takes time and patience to do it well.  It will make a better tool for the life of the tool.

Will future Tormek SE-76 jigs come from the factory with ground edges?  Possibly.  The second T7 I purchased came with the new EZYlock shaft and water trough.  My first unit came with a regular shaft, but made of stainless steel, an upgrade.  The SE-76 itself is an upgraded jig.

I know from personal experience that this forum is read by people at Tormek AB in Sweden. I hope the engineering staff have either considered grinding the front surface in the past, or will consider it.  If they feel it would be a cost effective improvement, they will probably introduce it.  It would be very nice if they posted their thoughts.

If they choose not to grind the surface, it does not mean it is not a good idea.  I think my idea of a half size flat surface jig is a definite improvement for very small blades.  I also realize that the demand for it would not be enough to justify the cost of manufacturing it as a separate product.  Any business must consider the bottom line or perish.

Robin and Mike, keep up the good work.  We can all benefit.

Ken 

Excellent post, Mike.  Good thoughts and photos well done.  I'll need some time to think it through.

Ken

Clever, Herman.  I wouldn't have thought of just using a thread die on the support rod and buying a nut. 

Ken

Rhino,

Robincbailey posted the idea for the larger universal support bar and found a local machine shop who would make them. Here is a link to the post:

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1027.msg2642#msg2642

He offered them to the forum, however, received only one request (from me).

I thought Robin had a good idea and followed through well with it.  I was disappointed that no other forum members  supported him. 

I bought a spare US-105.  Ernie Conover did a DVD on using the Tormek which showed the second US-105 mounted on his Tormek.  (one in vertical position for grinding; the other in horizontal for stropping with the leather wheel)  I have since concluded that handheld stropping is more practical. 

I also bought a spare mount for the US-105.  Mine was an older model which had only one locking screw.  In hindsight, I wish I had bought the newer model with two locking screws.

Both your idea and Robin's have good points.  There is room in the Tormek universe for both.  I would use your idea if I had occasional work.  If I was regularly sharpening cleavers professionally, I would welcome Robin's jig.

Ionut and I posted design suggestions for  jigs for small knives.  Ionut made up a prototype and posted the photographs.  Among my spare Tormek parts is a second SVD-110.  My plan is to cut it in half.  In half size it would allow small knife blades to be sharpened from either side of the wheel.  Tormek makes no such jig.

We have some clever and well trained people on this forum.  The Tormek has potential beyond the jigs the company presently manufactures.  Since I purchased my first Tormek, the company has added two new grinding wheels; a fine drill bit jig; and upgraded the water trough and shaft.  This is commendable, and I hope it will continue.  I hope a variable camber plane blade jig is in the pipeline.

As Tormek users, we can be innovative as well.  We need more innovative people like Ionut and you, Rhino, on the forum.

Keep up the good work and keep the ideas coming.

Ken

Clever solution, Rhino.

Ken

Ralph,
Straight is the only way to go with jointer blades.  My thought was only to run a board through with the arch before regrinding the blades.  Like you, I have a four inch jointer.  If you use hand planes to joint the odd wider board, the concave board might help keep the cambered plane blade honed.  Two feet of board would be plenty for the project.

Ken

Ralph,

I hesitated to reply because my plans to sharpen my jointer blades  were upstaged by my local repairman.  He changed out the jointer bearings for me and, unbeknownst to me, also had the blades sharpened.

Anyway, if the arched effect is uniform in your blades, you might run a couple boards through your jointer.  The slight concavity might be the right shape for honing hand plane blades with camber.  Either glue some high tech fine abrasive or use some diamond paste.

Ken

Robin, i seem to recall you live in the UK.  Correct?  If so, you might want to contact David Charlesworth.  He is a former member (though not very active) of this forum.  His technique seems first-rate.  He might recommend a good sharpening service in the UK.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Gary,

I really believe one of the engineering precepts of the Tormek system is that it work using the standard grinding wheel.  The SB and SJ wheels expand the range, but the heart of the system is the SG.

You should tell your wife that I convinced you that you didn't need the SB immediately to have the DBS-22 work, thus saving almost two hundred dollars.  If your wife is as smart as mine is, she probably won't fall for that, but may be nice enough to play along.

Good luck.

Ken

I sharpened a 7/16" hss bit earlier today.  I switched back to the standard grinding wheel.  I really didn't notice any difference between the black wheel and the general wheel.  I might feel differently if I had a lot of bits to sharpen or, more probably, if I was sharpening carbide or other exotic bits.

With the 7/16" hss bit, if I wanted to touch up bits like this and had the regular wheel mounted on the Tormek, I don't think I would change wheels, even with the EZYlock.  So, Gary, I would not let not having the black wheel hold you back.

Ken

I'm glad I'm not the only one who uses scrapers for less than pristine uses.  They are certainly useful tools.

For what it's worth, I'm a fan of both Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley.  Both are top quality makers.  I generally prefer traditionally designed tools.  Lie-Nielsen leans that way.  Lee Valley is more innovative in its designing.

My only Lie-Nielsen tools are three bevel chisels (the /16 sizes).  They ooze quality.  (I think Lee Valley's recent chisel offerings can give them a run for the money.)

I have been a Lee Valley customer for many years.  They have never disappointed me.  I have one of their planes, the plow plane.  It is a real stand out tool, even before they added the versatility of the newer blades.  It leaves the venerable Stanley 45 in the dust.

Choosing between these two brands is really personal preference on a tool by tool basis. It is a win-win choice.

For a jack plane, I actually have three.  All are old Stanleys, the oldest being inherited from my grandfather.  It is from the 1890s.  The middle is a 1909 Bedrock.  The new kid, is from 1926.  All are fine tools.  While I appreciate the quality of LV and L-N, I have no desire to replace my old trooper jack planes.  (No, no one "needs" three jack planes.)

My suggestion for a "mess around with" jack plane would be to first buy Chris Schwarz' Handplane book and than find a prewar Stanley in good condition. Ernie Conover's out of print handplane VHS is worthwhile, also.  Your local library might be able to find a copy for you.   They are very plentiful and quite reasonably priced.  The book will pay for itself in helping you make a good choice and tuning the plane.  Tuning a plane is not difficult, and the skill will serve you well.  It can be fun, too.

Ken

I agree with Herman.  Installing the new bearings may or may not actually improve your machine's performance.  Having a new set of bearings in the drawer will definitely not make a difference.

Ken

Next time I sharpen bits, I'll use the standard wheel.  I can't imagine it not working well.  I'll post.

Ken

I totally agree, Herman. For homeowners like us, being able to resharpen things like drill bits might be considered a necessity.  Sharpening them with the Tormek jig could hardly fall into the "basic needs" category.  Some people enjoy golf, extensive travel, toy cars or trucks, etc.  For me, the Tormek, while functional, is also somewhat my toy car. 

Truth be told, I don't think any of us would wear out either a Tormek or a Drill Doctor.  I did wear a considerable "dent" in my Norton 1000 water stone before getting the Tormek.

Mike, if you pick up more auger bits, make sure they are no more than dull. Once the screw point or wings are worn off, the rest of the bit is kaput.  There is no shortage of used auger bits.  (If you happen to find an old set of bits, the pristine ones are the ones you probably won't use, either.)

Gary,

I use the black stone, but only because I happen to have one.  (it was one of those 20% bag sales at my local dealer.  It actually fit in the bag, but barely.)  I bought it thinking it would be useful for turning tools, planer and jointer blades as well as drill bits. (Who made the comment, "buy the tool and cry once"....great comment!)  I'm sure any of these could be sharpened with the standard wheel.  I think that is part of the guiding design philosophy at Tormek.

Yes, like you, I just enjoy sharpening.

Good comments, guys.

Ken