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Messages - 3D Anvil

#1
Knife Sharpening / Re: Serration wheels
April 06, 2025, 06:15:06 AM
Sorry, forgot to answer your question about the wheel material.  It looks like some kind of ceramic, but that's just a guess.  I'd say they're true to their grit ratings.  The 160 is quite aggressive.
#2
Knife Sharpening / Re: Serration wheels
April 06, 2025, 01:40:44 AM
Hard to say what my deburring method will turn out to be at this point.  It was so heavy that I did a series of things.  I started using the corner of a leather belt with 6 micron diamond, first on the scallops and then on the flat and so on.  Didn't get it done.  Then I used a Scotchbrite belt, which worked better.  Finally I used a hanging 'roo tail strop, which improved the result greatly. 

And after all that ... I forgot that I have a 250mm leather wheel made just for serrations.   ;D   Next time I'll start there.
#3
Knife Sharpening / Serration wheels
April 05, 2025, 09:15:16 PM
Serrated knives are always troublesome to deal with.  I've tried many ways to sharpen them, with varying degrees of success.  Ultimately I reached a point where I could get them sharp ... but kind of destroy the tips and the appearance, or get them sharpER (i.e., better than before, but not great either), and maintain the tips and the appearance.  But I couldn't get them really sharp AND maintain nice tips and appearance.

That's why I was interested when someone post a link to SlipaKniven's serration wheels for Tormek.  Of course serrations come in many sizes, so no one wheel is going to work them all, but the SlipaKniven wheels seemed like they would work for a typical Wusthoff/Henckels bread knife and similar, so I decided to try them out. 

The wheels are 250x14mm and they have a 12mm bore to fit the Tormek.  They come in 160 grit and 400 grit and are sold as a pair for 99 Euros, which struck me as being quite reasonable.  The set also comes with a spacer for mounting.

I'm happy to report that they work!  At least for the aforementioned knives. Unfortunately I was so excited to try them out that I neglected to take a "before" shot of this Henckels bread knife, but trust me when I tell you that it was in BAD shape from serving as the guinea pig in my many pervious misadventures.  The tips were completely rounded, and the serrations themselves were totally uneven. 

Below is a pic of what it looks like after the SlipaKniven wheels.  Not perfect, but that's because I didn't grind quite enough on the coarse wheel to get all the tips back to 100%.  I also created a gigantic burr because so much material was removed, but I was able to remove it eventually and tested the edge at 130 BESS.  I think that's more than sufficient for a bread knife or slicer.

I attempted to show the profile of the wheels in one of the pics.  It's slightly conical, as opposed to being a straight half round, so I suspect that it will work with somewhat smaller serrations, but that's something I'll have to investigate.

The wheels are out of stock again, so if you're interested you'll have to sign up to be notified when they come back in stock.  That's what I did, and I believe the wait was 3-4 weeks.

https://slipakniven.com/product/grinding-wheel-set-for-serrations/
#4
So until now I've been getting by on bread knife sharpening by ... not really sharpening, but by using the SchleifJunkies' "leather wheel for serrations" and the edge of a belt to strop serrations.  I was using 1 micron diamond on the wheel and PA-70 on the belt.  Worked okay, but not really satisfactory for a dull knife.

This morning I leveled it up, using 20 micron diamond on the wheel, and I'm pretty happy with the result!  I was sharpening a Mercer bread knife with roughly 1/4" serrations.  Before sharpening, it measured at around 300 BESS.

I did 3-4 passes on the bevel side at the measured edge angle (25°) and then stropped on the edge of a leather belt with PA-70.  That got my BESS reading down to 110-125g, which to me is more than acceptable for a bread knife.

Now, I don't know how it would work with a really dull knife, and it's obviously not going to restore a knife with rounded points, but that's a topic for another day.

https://schleifjunkies.de/en/product/leather-wheel-for-serrated-edge/
#5
Quote from: RickKrung on February 28, 2025, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: tgbto on February 28, 2025, 08:20:02 AMPlus I realized afterwards that a serration is not a half-circle, but rather a portion of it, so the diameter can be wider than the pitch.
...snip...

A radius gauge set, like below is the right tool to measure the serrations. Match the curvature of the gauge to any portion of a internal or external radius and read the measurement from the stamped markings. 
Thanks!
#6
Quote from: tgbto on February 27, 2025, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: 3D Anvil on February 26, 2025, 06:30:53 PM14mm is .55", which seems about right for most bread knives

Well my typical bread knife is akin to this one.

It has 35 serrations in less than 8.25", which is at most a .24" pitch.

On this other one, it looks like a .25" pitch at best (31 serrations in less than 8").

For both, the wheel will ride on the teeth.

Wolfgang demonstrates using the edge of the wheel with what looks like a 3-ish mm corner radius, which seems more like it. Typical triangular ceramic rods have an even higher curvature.

Yeah, those are smaller serrations than the ones on the Mercer bread knife I'm using.  I looked at a couple others we have and they are smaller.  I guess you'd need at least two sizes to cover all the bases.
#7
Quote from: tgbto on February 07, 2025, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: RickKrung on February 07, 2025, 02:03:27 AM
Quote from: John_B on February 06, 2025, 08:57:33 PMAfter you use the angle setter you mat want to try coloring the knife edge with marker and rotate wheel ny hand to see what is removed. This is a double check on the setting.

I ALWAYS do this, no matter how I set the angle.  On EVERY blade.  On EVERY wheel diameter change (and even between Tormek diamond wheel changes where the diameter doesn't change). 

Yes, that. It is a tremendous help when it comes to gauging what the motion has to be to sharpen the tip (and heel) properly.

Agree!  In tricky cases I always Sharpie the tip and heel -- just around 1/4 - 1/2".  No need for the whole blade in my case, because I'm rarely trying to match an existing angle.
#8
Yeah, this is a problem for Tormek sharpening.  If you angle the knife you are going to get wildly different sharpening angles from the heel to the tip.  Like BPalv, I'll either use a 1x30 or freehand sharpen these types of knives.
#9
Yes, I agree that the very high edge angle is the cause of rapid dulling.  An edge bevel is essentially a triangle, with the acute angle forming the apex.  The wider that triangle is, the faster the apex will widen out through abrasion. 

On the other hand, a very thin triangle is more susceptible to rolling and chipping, so you have to balance acuteness versus edge stability.

Personally, I use 15° per side for most kitchen knives, but I know many pro sharpeners do 17°, and some go as low as 10-12°.  It's something I'd explore with your client.   
#10
Quote from: tgbto on February 26, 2025, 03:24:29 PMI hope I got that kind of basic math right, but I'll wager "R7" means a diameter of 14mm.

So for all knives with serrations spaced less than 14mm apart (which incidentally means all of my bread and frozen food knives), this wheel will grind the apex of the teeth and not the space in between the teeth.

14mm is .55", which seems about right for most bread knives.  I know that Cliff Curry sells a 6" by .5" CBN wheel for bench grinders that he recommends for bread knives.  Of course that's going to be more for cutting in new serrations as opposed to touching up existing ones.

Anyway, I'm going to order a pair of the SlipaKniven wheels when they come back in stock and will report back.
#11
Interesting product!  I think these would also be quite useful for sharpening recurve knives.
#12
Joe, what angle are you using to sharpen the knives?  You should know that it's much easier to achieve low BESS scores with lower edge angles.  Most of Vadim's commercial sharpening was done at 12° per side.  It's possible to achieve very low scores with higher edge angles, but the higher you go, the lower the margin for error.  Also keep in mind that while Vadim recommended higher honing angles for lower-end steel, he always had at least a two-step honing process, with the final pass(es) at the exact sharpening angle.

Regarding compounds, for regular kitchen knives I think PA-70 is a better choice than 2 micron diamond, if you're only using one compound.
#13
Knife Sharpening / Re: Rock Hard Felt Wheels
February 13, 2025, 05:16:46 AM
Quote from: BPalv on February 13, 2025, 12:41:50 AM
Quote from: kwakster on February 12, 2025, 07:28:25 PMPaper Wheels with diamond paste & oil do not overheat an edge.
Vadim's research & testing also proved that.

A Paper Wheel using the standard silicon carbide grit will also not overheat an edge, provided you use enough wax on it's surface so there is  a complete coverage.
This is critical, and the wax is best applied like a crayon on a wheel that is turned by hand.
I gotta say, if you pull your knife across the wheel less than 5 mm a second I think you would still possibly hurt the temper.  I think that is documented in Wootz's work.
IMHO it wouldn't take much to heat a quarter micron thickness at the apex.

Yes, if you go too slow you can absolutely smoke an edge, and it also depends a lot on pressure.  Part of my problem is that every paper wheel I've tried has been slightly out of round and it takes some pressure to keep the edge from bouncing.  I just don't see an advantage over leather belts, which produce very little heat.
#14
Knife Sharpening / Re: CBN cleaning
February 12, 2025, 07:10:59 PM
I use a one of those rubber sticks that are generally used for cleaning abrasive belts to clean my CBN wheels.  I use it after every sharpening and have had zero problems with load up.
#15
I've been using the KS-123 for a few months, after a couple years using the calculator method, measuring to the top of the case.  I find the two methods equally accurate (to within about .5°), measured using a laser goniometer. In other words, .5° is the maximum divergence I've seen.  On average I'd say the set angle is coming in within 1/4° of the actual angle.

For the most accurate results with the KS-123, I find that I do have to recheck the angle after tightening down the USB.  Even though I push down on the USB when tightening, I generally get a +0.5° shift.