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As I am sure you are aware Japanese knives are made with several styles of bevel. Single bevel, Western double bevel and a double bevel with each side at a unique angle. They may also come with smaller bevel angle than many western knives. Being left handed I have stuck with western style double bevel with my Japanese knives. Also try and develop a light touch with the diamond wheel as it cuts quicker than the SG-250. I also like to use a jeweler's loupe to inspect the entire knife edge. You will often find areas that were missed in your initial passes due to prior poor sharpening practices.

I maintain a small concierge sharpening business with limited customers as I don't want it to turn into a job. One thing I have done is create a notebook with a section for each customers knives. I include sharpening angle, jig projection length for next time and any reprofiling or repair that I need to do.

My situation is very similar.  Notebook with grind grits, bevel angle, projection length and target USB height.  I include the same honing information and sharpening results as measured by a BESS. Makes the next time a tad easier.  One of these days I need to convert this to a data sheet for easy access.

Dan,
A couple things...
My daughter owns a set of the Shan Zu knives.  The one I'm looking at is 10Cr15Mov damascus.  They sharpen like a powdered steel.  First one sharpened came out at 70 with out any extra effort.  They did dull fairly easily though, after one cookout they were very dull. 
I have seen this brand tested in a very lengthy review on YouTube.  His test was expensive Japanese style knives vs. Cheap ones.  He included an objective opinion, "How they were to use".  After the test he ranked the Shun Zu #1, overall best, it did test at 62 hardness. He did test Wusthoff, these were better in his test, being harder and food didn't stick to the blade when using.
 
Secondly, I own a set of Shun's that have a core of VG-Max... similar to VG-10.  They hold an Edge much better as you would hope, for the price.

Maybe buy 1 before you buy a set and see if you like it. 

I have tried a few. I buy mine from Tech Diamond Tools.  It does a very nice job for me.  I use 3-mu on leather stropping belts and on a paper wheel.  I currently have 1mu on a leather belt as well.  Currently I have a PW with .25 mu, I will be setting up a new wheel with 1mu soon.
Make sure you true your paper wheel before applying your emulsion, they are considerably more effective when your tools aren't bouncing around on the wheel.

So, are you gentlemen finding benefit from the felt wheels?  There was a thread in which most folks claimed the felt wheels (rock hard) were making their projects duller in some cases.
I'm just curious as to what your process is and how are you measuring your results?

One note though, if you come over for dinner don't stick your hand in the knife drawer.

Do you mean you keep you ultra-sharp knives loose in a drawer   

Just kidding, they now sport sheaths...

Ken,
I also wanted to give my thoughts on "Basic Bess" and me.
My journey started Many years ago trying to get my filet knives sharp for the mountains of Lake Erie Walleye we would catch.  Later my kids bought me a set of Shun's that added fuel to the fire.
After spending a bunch, reading mountain's of studies, techniques, years of practice and of course endless videos, it doesn't feel very "basic" to me, nor was it a short journey.
Sharpening becomes a personal thing, why you sharpen, how you sharpen and the results you expect.  I love a super sharp knife but understand that most folks couldn't care less.

One note though, if you come over for dinner don't stick your hand in the knife drawer.
Al

Most BESS users strive for very low scores immediately after sharpening. I call that "basic BESS". While that may seem to bring bragging rights, those rights are short lived. In my opinion, using BESS to help determine the staying power of sharp edges is more useful. This extended testing can be to include comparing longevity of edges with different bevel angles, grinds, or steel.

Ken

I will ponder how to go about this and would like to give it a go.  With the sparse equipment I have it will at least be very challenging to get some sort of apples to apples test.  To date my testing, as Ken stated, I have been using the BESS to test sharpness, not longevity. 

I hate to say this but so far I can't really see the difference in supersteels as it equates to a lasting edge.  Many of the manufacturers tout super tough but all that I have used seem very similar in real world use.  That is to say, does my s30V edge last as long as my Magnacut.  Does toughness equate to a lasting edge?
I grew up messing with PC's.  The manufacturers would say how much faster they were.  It was true but that speedier PC could only be measured in nano seconds.  Perhaps it's like that with different supersteels unless they are on opposite sides of the supersteels spectrum.

The only advantage to a super sharp edge may be that because it starts sharper, it will generally be sharp longer.  I could certainly see where a ultra sharp edge could be more fragile...

Edge retention is still something that is somewhat of a mystery to me.  I have tried 600 grit and very little honing to highly polished.  Neither seem to be superior in terms of edge retention.  That is, retaining a 70 edge on the BESS.
After use, all steels I have sharpened lose that super sharpness in the first couple uses.  Some steels jump to a 140, some to 240 on everything but the softest foods.
They all seem to lose that eye popping sharpness very quickly.
I only have my tests to gauge this on.  I haven't seen any tests for real world usage to measure how fast the edge degrades.  I suppose CARTA tests do show the degradation but usually they demonstrate how long the usable edge lasts, not how long they stay ultra sharp.
Once again, how sharp you need/want to keep your tools/knife is very personal.  I had a carpenter look at a chisel sharpened to 90 like it was meh...

I have to say, I love my rotating base.
I thought I would just pick it up and turn it for honing.  The base makes it sooo much easier.

"The sub 50 journey" seems like our version of climbing Mount Everest, "Because it is there". I don't mean to seem sarcastic. We all benefit from the work of pioneers pushing back the sharpness frontiers. Using BESS to make sure that burr is completely removed benefits day to day sharpening, long after the sub fifty reading is gone.

Ken

Im way to lazy to try and get sub 50, once I reach 100 I'm done, its getting tedious just re stringing the Bess tester! Once the method is proven i will use it less and less, its not a competition for me, just looking for longevity. 

I don't intentionally pursue 50 BESS readings, they just happen using this current technique.
I have tested ultra sharp edges and they only stay that way for one use.  They will be reading over 100 with one use.  Vadim was very clear when he stated the sharper a knife is to start, the longer it will remain sharp.  Depending on the use of course.
My target when I sharpen is 100.

Hi folks, so its been a few years but I've got back into sharpening with my T8. Partly due to the Ks-123 but partly due to moving house and finally getting a workshop setup.
To cut a long story short, I purchased a PT50A and its killing me! It now appears I have all the gear and no idea! I have everything I need to get down to 50 Bess and I cant get below 160 and that's on a clip not the manual media. I was an avid follower of Vadim and have been using his techniques for years but never tested my knives on a Bess.
Just to be clear, I'm not chasing 50 Bess, I'm not chasing anything except proof of wire burr removal so I ask if its possible I've done it with a Bess score of 200-240? I've lost my scope in the move so I've been looking through a loupe and the edge looks clean, please see my pics, however, after getting down to 165 on a test clip, I cut some cardboard and it jumped to 205, this would suggest a burr remains after everything I've learned over the years? The knife is a Global, I've apexed it on CBN, SG, SB, ( finished it on SJ, tried grading on the SG, honed on Composit, Felt with diamonds and leather loaded with chromium oxide, (felt at various degrees and leather at original angle) the latter after diamonds yielded sub 200. Sorry the pics aren't great, I think my old S9+ was better at Macro than this S23U. I've tried .5 to 2.5 degrees increases on honing, I use a FVB. I have spent a lot of time honing, all this at 15 degrees but i did try 12, the test media dented the edge at 12 but I've been at this for days so it probably wasn't honed properly.
What do you guys think? I haven't tried any other knives, this one belongs to a friend who puts them in the dishwasher! I have my own Globals but I've been focussed on getting this knife bellow 100 Bess before I move on to his others and then mine. Just to reiterate, I'm only looking for low Bess as Vadim always said over 100 was an indication of the wire burr remaining.

Edit: best reading is 148 on a clip using leather and green paste at 2.5 degrees higher.

The sub 50 journey... yes it can be done, multiple ways.
I use the following process for sub 100 scores.  You will need a BESS tester, a quality set of calipers, a Tormek or knockoff (You may drive yourself crazy with the wide range of tolerances on those machines though) a second Tormek honing wheel, PA-70 and a 1mu diamond emulsion (some work, some don't, I use DMT brand).  I also use a microscope $29 on Amazon, 1000 magnification if an edge is suspect.

-I Grind to 15 Degrees on kitchen knives unless otherwise dictated (Shuns 16 degrees etc.).
Finish your grind on CBN or Diamond (Not sure if the stone will do this yet as this process is fairly new to me and I haven't tested yet).  Vadim say's it won't work with the stone, I will test at some point as other parts of his methods have work arounds.  I can say this works with 600 and 1000 CBN grinds.  Vadim stated it works with diamonds as well.

-After completing your grind with lighter passes to minimize the Burr you will need to use the multi jig to set up the Tormek honing wheel loaded with PA-70.  Set the universal bar so your angle is 15.4.  (I am currently testing +.5)

-Make two to three passes with medium pressure on the burrless side then one or two more pass on both sides and examine.  At this point there should be almost no burr.

-Make sure to remove all PA-70 from your work piece so you don't contaminate your next wheel.

-Test your edge, you should be anywhere from 100 to 500 depending on the burr.  if your still around 500 make another pass or two on the PA-70.

-Put on the second honing wheel loaded with 1mu diamonds... some work, some don't... (I'm using an emulsion from DMT).
Make two extremely light passes with the 1um diamonds.

-Make one extremely light pass on both sides and test.  With any luck you should be sub 100.

-If your score is not where you want it you can continue to use the 1mu wheel with very light pressure.  You do not want to round the apex.

This process has yielded edges as low as 30 but typically 60 to 80.  However, if you get readings as low as 50 or below, check your edge with a microscope and look for a burr or a foil edge.  Repeated very light passes do further refine the edge and can increase sharpness.

Vadim stated that the step required to remove the burr required a felt or paper wheel at +2 degrees (1.6 or others).  This process does remove the burr but it also polishes the edge. 

The 1mu wheel should clean up the burr without polishing the teeth away with repeated passes if the burr is stubborn.  I have had success raising the honing wheels to +.5 without rounding the apex. (with a light touch).

Typically, if this process is followed you will see edges in the 60 to 80 range. 


You can use the paper wheels and achieve the same results with a polished edge (6mu, then 1mu... .25 if you want). Slow passes and pressure create a lot of heat!
(Before using paper wheels use sand paper to make them as round with a smooth edge as you can, it will pay off later).

These processes seem to be as much technique as equipment... a light touch is your friend.
Al

Interestingly I find most folks seem to care less about their knives.  I charge about double what most knife sharpeners in my area charge.  My grinding isn't perfect, but I try to make them perfect every time.  That's why I charge more, I sharpen every knife like they are mine.  It takes time.
(And only you and I know they're not perfect)

...snip...
      it appears there is more than one way to achieve his results.  Technique is the key.

I have to agree, just last week I got a 67 BESS result using the composite honing wheel followed by stropping on a hanging leather strop.  The latter step contributes significantly to the final sharpness.  Got some others that hovered around 100.   All were polished on the SJ wheel prior to deburring. 

I test everything with the BESS tester.  I have tested knives before and after stropping on plain leather.  Some supersteels don't improve much on leather (VG-Max) most steels do improve with plain leather strops though, some quite a bit.  I have had leather improve BESS scores up to 80 grams after stropping on a plain leather strop. 
Also, after I sharpen a knife and strop with an emulsion, stropping on plain leather usually further refines the edge improving the BESS scores another 5 points....

After reading everyone's replies I don't think I see any benefit from a rock hard felt wheel at this point. 

As of late I have tweaked my stropping process with very good results.  After grinding and measuring with painful accuracy I hone on the Tormek wheel at +.4 with PA-70.(accuracy in measuring is critical) After 3 light passes I switch to a Tormek honing wheel with 1um diamond paste (Tech Diamond Tools). A couple EXTREMELY light passes should net some great Bess numbers.
This is in reference to good steels.  Sub 100 scores should be fairly consistent with this process.  (At 15 degrees).

Edit:
I've been using this process for a while now and am extremely satisfied with the results.  Quality knives leave been finishing at 45 to 60 on the Bess.

Vadim worked long and hard on his research and I probably wouldn't have went down the ultra sharp path if I hadn't read his book.  I appreciate everything he did.  However, I have to say, it appears there is more than one way to achieve his results.  Technique is the key.

Further, if it is necessary it true the wheel before any use, then the  TT-50 should be included with any starter kit and should be included in the instructions.

Pete,
I felt the Tormek T8 was too pricey... it's not though, it's all the accessories! 

However....
Have you compared Tormek to any other brand?  If you would like to see poor craftsmanship try one of the knock-off's.  Other than the accessories pricing and the " oh, you're going to need one of these" system they use, they are a top shelf piece of equipment.  The more I use it, the more I love it.