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Messages - RodC

#1
Thanks, Ken.  I was not using the honing wheel.  That is because I was expecting the fine stone sharpening to remove most/all of the scratch marks like I experience when using a 1000 grit waterstone.  When using waterstones, I proceed to leather strop honing only after the scratches are removed.  I usually polish the full bevel with the 1000 grit waterstone, then do a secondary bevel with a 5000 grit stone.

Since the scratches were not being removed, I thought the honing would be pointless at that stage.  After several minutes of Tormek fine sharpening, there would be some patches on the chisel face that would have a dull mirror look like I am used to with a 1000 grit waterstone.  But not most of the face.   

So I then took the Tormek-sharpened chisel to my 5000 grit waterstone and put on a short secondary bevel by hand - about 10 strokes on each side.  This produced a mirror finish at the edge. Then I used my leather strop with honing paste, about 20 strokes on each side.  Since the Tormek produces a hollow bevel, it is not too hard to hold the chisel so that just the front and the back of the hollow face rest on the waterstone.  Then you carefully pull the chisel across the stone.  The result is a nice, narrow polished edge.   

This gives a pretty good edge and carves well.  I then keep it sharp with periodic stropping.

So what you are telling me is that the results of 1000 grit Tormek sharpening should look a lot rougher than what I was expecting.  And I guess that the Tormek honing does a lot more to remove scratches than what I experience with hand stropping.  I will give this a try.       
#2
Here is an update on my Tormek sharpening experiences.
 
I can now do a pretty good job of doing the initial coarse grinding. I looked at the sharpening video that one of the members suggested (thanks!) where the Tormek rep spent some time discussing the use of the stone grader.  He mentioned using the edge of the coarse side instead of the face.  I now do this and the coarse grinding goes a lot faster.

My problem now is that the fine sharpening stage is slower than it should be.  I think I am prepping the stone with the grader correctly.  First I empty and refill the water bath (I am suspecting that floating coarse grit might otherwise contaminate the fine grinding).  Then I use the edge of the fine side of the grader, then switch to the face.  I probably do about 20-30 seconds of each, or about a minute total.  I feel the stone to check to see if it feels completely smooth.  Then proceed to sharpen.  I work at it for about 20 minutes and get so-so results.  I still have some scratches that I don't get out.

Things I have tried:
I added a magnet taped to the outside of the T-4 tray.  This does collect swarf.  Not sure if it actually helps with the problems I have been having.

I lighten up my pressure on the chisel towards the end of the coarse grinding.  The idea is to try to have less deep grooves in the chisel in preparation for the fine sharpening.

I am no longer sliding the chisel back and forth across the stone.  I am sharpening carving chisels and am using the SVS-38, and the manual says to NOT move the chisel.  This is because this jig does not have two points of contact with the USB like the SE-77.  IMHO it is too easy to slightly mis-align the chisel face if you move it around    I think this has helped somewhat.

Questions:
Do you think I am prepping the stone for fine sharpening correctly?

Are the fine sharpening results I am expecting realistic?  I am used to sharpening woodworking chisels on water stones with a Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen jig.  I am expecting the sharpening results to look similar to what a 1000 grit water stone produces.  That means a dull mirror-ish finish with no visible scratches.  I switched to the Tormek for carving chisels since they have double bevels, with each bevel about 11 degrees (about 22 degrees total bevel angle).  This is too shallow for the jigs I use with the waterstones.

Thanks in advance for any insights.
   
               
#3
Thanks guys for the replies.  I am using the SG-200 stone.  One thing that I just thought of - the T-4 water trough does not have a magnet to collect the swarf.  Apparently the T-8's does.  That could be an issue, and I can easily address that.  Looking over past posts, it looks like a 3/4" super magnet glued to the outside back vertical wall would help with this issue.  Easy enough to try.  I'll probably tape it on at first, then maybe use "Goop" as one post suggested.

Another thing I should do is try sharpening a standard wood chisel - I have some Irwin/Marples Blue chisels as discussed in the Beginner's Guide in this forum.  That would let me do an apples-to-apples comparison with what experienced operator's results are.

It seems to me that the swarf is clogging the surface of the stone, possibly reducing its cutting effectiveness significantly.  And I need to address that.  Does this seem likely?

I may have other issues that I need to pay attention to and adjust, but the swarf issue seems primary to me.
#4
I got a T-4 recently and have been using it to sharpen woodcarving chisels.  My T-4 has the SG-200 stone.  I am using the SVS-38 jig.  I am sharpening Pfeil flat woodcarving chisels (#1 x 18 mm).  It has been taking me a long time to sharpen a chisel - about 40 minutes or so.  Note that a woodcarving chisel has a double bevel - the same bevel on each side.  So you are doing twice the sharpening work when compared to a regular wood chisel.  After reading on the forum, I see that there is a learning curve and I am trying get the process right.

When I see the various videos demonstrating the Tormek sharpening process, I hardly see any swarf at all on the wheel.  In contrast here's what I see: First I clean the wheel of swarf if needed by using the coarse side of the stone grader for as long as it takes - a lot longer than the 30 seconds that the manual says - I probably take at least 60 seconds, applying heavy pressure.  Then I set the grinding angle using the magic marker method.  Next, I proceed to grind the bevel angle with the coarse grit.  The wheel almost immediately starts showing streaks of swarf.  These build up as I keep sharpening with the coarse grit.  It takes around 5 - 10 minutes per side to get the coarse sharpening done.  Is this normal?  Should I stop and periodically remove the swarf with the stone grader?  You are supposed to use the horizontal USB position with the SVS-38, but the recommendation is to use the vertical position for the stone grader - I guess to deliver more pressure onto the stone.  Does this matter?  I can't see moving the USB when in the middle of a sharpening session.

When I transition to fine sharpening, I use the stone grader long enough to remove the swarf - as already said, this is a lot longer than 30 seconds of heavy pressure.  The fine sharpening takes awhile, too - maybe 5 minutes per side, but I do not usually see any swarf on the stone during this step.

Note that I complete one face of the chisel, doing the coarse and fine sharpening, before removing it from the SVS-38 to do the opposite.  So I am using the stone grader 4 times per chisel.

I have tried some things to minimize the swarf problem, since I suspect that it is slowing down the sharpening process. I move the chisel across the stone when sharpening to try to use the whole stone and possibly distribute the swarf.  I try to keep the water reservoir clean.  I empty it when I am done sharpening and I clean it out when moving from coarse to fine sharpening.  These things may have helped some in reducing the time it takes to sharpen, but I still wonder what is going on and what I can do to improve things.

Any insights would be appreciated.