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I modified diagram for SVM-45 & SE-77

SVM-45 Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/uk8cpnq7


SE-77 Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/cdc2mfcc

I add Chord-tangent angle to SE-77 version. If you didn't use chord angle as second bevel, set blade thickness (t) as 0.


Benjamin

I made a diagram for SVM-45.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/uk8cpnq7

Link is also added in first page.

Benjamin

Ps.
Anyone who need a special version for your own(design) jig, give me a mail.  I can make one for you, just give me your jig's dimensions & photo.

Nice work!

No real difference though... only to where you measure the Projection Distance.  Everything else comes out the same.   (Just add 6mm to your answer.)

Most of the process... the measuring, data entry, etc., were simply designed for ease of use.  For example, it's easier to measure (and maybe understand?) the Projection Distance from a solid point (the Stop Collar) vs. using a special device or "guessing" where the center is.  (Although to be fair, some used a "special device" anyway.)  The "math" is done behind the scenes, and all is based on Dutchman's work.

It would be interesting, instead of the random shapes you used... to apply it to something like the SE-77.  I think if a wide variety of jigs were used, there might be some validity to having a device that "automatically" measured "f".

I looked at the actual calculator... impressive the work done to recreate the SVM-45.

Hi cbwx,

The first time I got SVM-45, it also confuse me.  I can't find its rotating center until I saw the knife jig you made.  Your idea show the clarity of rotating center.

I modify SVM-45 a bit in diagram, soldering a piece of metal on it.  You will see how similar they are.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/ufnydurj

I can not get the point without your nice jig.


Sorry Ton, maybe I am out of topic.  But I think this picture can show rotate center.  No matter what kind of jig.  When it bound on USB, the rotating center should be USB center.  No exception!


Benjamin

Hi Ton,

Thanks for your invitation.  It's my honour to be here, explain your formula to help new user.



To senior members,

First, I would like to say thank you.  All sharing of your works & experiences are excellent, help many newbies quickly pick up sharpening skills.  I learn a lots from you.

There are many way can reach goal, every method is good when we get there.

The method I described next,  may not suit for you.  I use a different view to look at Dutchman's Formula.  I try my best to step into his shoes to understand what he thought.  Different view point may cause confusion made it more complicate. Should beware.



To New users,

Congratulations, you are here.  Dutchman's Formula is a gem.  It's precision, effective and beauty.  It also can be easily  applied to real work, no adjustment needed.

Long story short, let's start.  Want to master your sharpening machine, you have to understand the world of rotation.  I made some animation to explain it.

First, I design 2 funny jig, mount a blade on it to compare with Tormek's knife jig.  Watch how they work and what they are different.  In the next few animation, you can zoom & drag to watch it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/mszugnu3


Don't punch me, next link might make you more confuse.  Don't worry, I will bring you back soon.  Try drag speed bar to make it faster.  The real moon's speed is faster than it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/fq6vghg3

I put them on moon's orbit.  They are self rotating,  rotate around moon.  Also drag by moon to rotate around earth.  It's very complicate to figure out.  How can we get which parts is stable? Which point we can approach?


Next link show how I approach.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/asprvpjg

I grab them from moon's orbit.  Setup on my desktop.  I have to make sure something fix and stable.  Don't let the stupid orbit fool me.

Left bottom of the frame has a small stop/play button.  Stop it, drag angle sliding-bar slowly to watch them carefully.  Dutchman's real projection (I name it) and jig rotate radius are in there.  Don't ask me how and why.  The answer is inside the animation diagram.  If you don't get it, look it again and watch it carefully.
(2023.05.12 Update: I modify diagram. Drag the green spot to any part of jig, you can easily figure out the rotating center.)

Ok, my demonstration is done.  The next few link show Dutchman's formula.  All the works is his, not mine.  It's simple, clear and beauty.  I won't do too much explain.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/trpp72ek

This link, I took away many things which may confuse you.  Only left 2 circle link by knife blade.  The blade angle is decided by two tangent line.  It make sense,  sharpening happen at the blade tip only.


The next link is Dutchman's origin theory.  I didn't change anything.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh


The next is my solution to find Dutchman's projection and jig rotate radius.  Last link is my calculator.  All measure point is center (such as USB center).

https://www.geogebra.org/m/haxutcdv

Drag the jigs slide bar to watch,  no matter the shape and protrude vary,  the projection & radius is same.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wndeq2gn



Best Regards,

Benjamin

Hi,

I made a calculating diagram simulate TTS-100's design.  It can help you make your version TTS-100 type jig.  Hope it help.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/csmvmayb

I didn't out of topic, I did the chord-tangent line compensation on it. Same as previous, you have to figure out Ton's real projection to apply it.

Regards,

Benjamin

I add it at first page also.

Intrigued by @benhung's idea, I thought I might give geogebra a try.

Here's a first shot, with the same naming conventions as in Jan's TormekCalc spreadsheet, so I could double check values. And guess what : R=125, TUSB = 78.9 and projection distance of 139mm gives ... a nice 15° angle! I assumed a fixed (top of) USB height above casing, but it would even be easier just setting TUSB.

The nice thing with GeoGebra is the only computation done uses Pythagora's theorem once. No need to master inverse cotangents like @Dutchman to set angles

Well done!

Expect more sharing from you. Thanks! 

Benjamin

... snip
I'll remove the link couple of days later
...
https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Hello Benjamin
,,,,,

 I would like you to add the link with some explanation as 'reply' to my topic, the link of which you will find in my 'signature',

Hi Ton,

Thank you again about your great concept. Please give me couple of days to make an English version.

I'm also new to GeoGebra, I started it about a week ago.  It's very easy to use. I think you can easily handle it.

I'm sorry. The web page show "Author" name by default, can not be change.  I don't have GeoGebra account. Mr. Kuan is my cousin, he help me convert work sheet to web page.

That's why I need few day to modify it. I will re-post it when it is done.

Regards,

Benjamin

I could be wrong, but I think some of this is the "behind the scenes" math, and what is actually being used.  For example "f" may be the "center of the jig" to the "center of the USB", not the actual diameter or radius of the jig.

hi cbwx,

You are not wrong, same as tgbto.  We are trying to find out the result, just approach it by different way.  Some way is easier, the other maybe complicate.  All of us can reach our goal when we keep it step by step.

I use a different way to approach it, assume point C is the centre of USB. When we bound jigs on USB, they are link together.  All machine parts are moving and rotating when machine is working, only Grind wheel's axle and USB are fixed. Wheel's axle is point A, jigs rotate axle is point C.  we adjust the distance of AC to get desire blade angle we want. It's done!

English is my 2nd language.  I hope I don't make things more confuse. I don't know how to upload picture  to explain it.  Sorry about that.

Benjamin

[very]

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv

It's nice to have it on geogebra, ..........

...
I'll remove the link couple of days later. It's your concept, I don't think I have the right to show it in public without your permission.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Well, hopefully you can leave it up, because this is very cool.

This diagram is origin model developed by Ton. If Ton say it's OK, I don't mind leave it there.  Also can share my work sheet (GeoGebra's GGB file) to anyone who interest.  Very easy to modify it suit for various jigs, just change the value of factors. It can suddenly turn out to be a calculator with diagram, that's the way I setup my T8.

Benjamin

It looks like a "calculator" representation of what is described by Jan in this thread?

Hi,

New to the forum. I made a Chord-Tangent angle compensation sliding-diagram by GeoGebra. Don't know it's useful or not. I post it on forum for someone who is interesting.

Regards.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/abdqd8dj

d : Grindstone diameter.  α : angle.  t : blade thickness

It looks like a "calculator" representation of what is described by Jan in this thread?


https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3244.msg19184.html#msg19184

I too, would be curious how you use it.  (What do you mean by "angle compensation"?)

Pretty cool though!

Hi cbwx,

Yes, it is just a calculator. It's not too hard to get chord-tangent angle's value, but has to take some massive steps. It's a small tool. If someone feel it useful, pick it up. If not, just let it be there.

Also thank you for your kindness, share your excellent jobs to newbies like me.

Benjamin

It helps if you describe what the use is and how you use it.

I don't know how to describe, also don't know it useful or not?

By some reason, the angle of my chisel's blade has to be "given-angle + chord-tangent angle". Actually, I can not feel the difference. The difference is tiny, but it always be there. This situation irritates me a lot. You ask how I use it. I don't know. Maybe... the answer is "I use it to fix my stubbornness".

Hi Ton,

I'm glad I can make conversation with you. I would like to say "Thank you!". Your booklet "More math for the Tormek grinder" help me a lots. I pick up some of you concept, made a motion diagram to help me setup T8.

I post the link bellow to show the amazing jobs you did, and how helpful it is. It also present the beauty of math that's described in your booklet. I try my best to draw the diagram same as your booklet's Figure 10 to show my respect.

I'll remove the link couple of days later. It's your concept, I don't think I have the right to show it in public without your permission.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh

I modify the link as English version.

Hi,

New to the forum. I made a Chord-Tangent angle compensation sliding-diagram by GeoGebra. Don't know it's useful or not. I post it on forum for someone who is interesting.

Regards.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/abdqd8dj

d : Grindstone diameter.  α : angle.  t : blade thickness

-------------------------
Dutchman's Angle Setup Formula Diagram:
https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh

I add Dutchman's Angle Setup formula here. This is his origin model, also my calculator.  Present his theory only, can not be apply if you can not find out real Projection & Jig rotate radius.

-------------------------
TTS-100 Type - Jig calculator
https://www.geogebra.org/m/csmvmayb


20230505 Update:

This Diagram show how I find projection (k) & radius (f), not difficult.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/haxutcdv

Add USB base adjustment to Angle Setup Diagram.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wndeq2gn

aslo post it on Dutchman's Link.

-------------------------
20230510 Update:

Tormek SVM-45 Version Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/uk8cpnq7

Projection is Dutchmen's Projection (6mm different).

-------------------------
20230516 Update:

Tormek SE-77 Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/cdc2mfcc

If you don't use chord angle as second bevel, set thickness t as 0.

-------------------------
20230521 Update:

Add parameter input box of "Blade Angle Setup", "SVM-45" and "SE-77" version.  Big thanks to cbwx34 for reviewing, testing & suggestions.