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Hi secondofangle. I too struggled for a while to get rid of the Knifegrinders software crutch.
However, once you make the leap to using calcapp or such, or the new Tormek angle tool, you will realise just how simple and efficient they are to use and you then needn't worry about losing your crutch. Believe me, I went through the same process!

It depends on the condition of the knives.
If they are just needing a touch up then match the angle and maybe start oa 600 grit?
If they are badly damaged and need a re grind or re profiling then start lower.
Remember that all the hard work is done at lower grits.
Establish your edge and then refine and then de burr/ hone.

A while back I sharpened some chisels for a good friend.
Today he said that they were really sharp when he first got them back but the edge soon dulled and he's frustrated now that he didn't keep them honed up regularly, they are now blunt. We both agreed that not knowing the make that they were not quality in the first place.
Long story short, can anyone recommend a manufacturer for a set of 3 chisels to buy that will at least retain an edge for longer?
I'm not au fait with woodworking tools.
He mentioned going down the Japanese route, I said the same thing would apply to any purchase, 'do your research'.
I said I'd ask on here.
Thanks in advance.

Yep! All sounds very familiar. As I've got more experience I've realised that it's all about getting the right customers rather than loads of iffy ones. If they appreciate what you do they'll come back and won't question your prices or techniques, allowing you to do a good rewarding job.
These days, if someone questions my prices or techniques or doesn't take my advice then they get binned. Just not worth it.
The chef thing? Yep agree wholeheartedly. I have several and they are good customers and meet the above criteria.
But I do remember one that I offered my services to. He said his kitchens knives were sharp and got a sous chef to bring one out to show me. You can imagine! I guess over 500 Bess. I said I could get it sharper than new for him. He asked how much? I told him (explaining about re profiling and how subsequent sharpenings would be cheaper). He laughed and replied that his contacts could get the knives ( I think they were Victorinox) cheaper than the sharpening (which I doubt).
I walked away thinking I'd dodged a bullet.
I guess you've just got to hang on in there until you get the right repeat customers who will start recommending you to other good repeat customers.
Might take a little longer but it's worth it in the long run.

Agree with Royale and Ken wholeheartedly.
My personal mantra is quality over quantity.
Quality finds good, repeat customers who are appreciative and likely to recommend.

This looks like a great solution. Thanks! Especially if you can add that 'friction' to the thread on the adjustable stop to stop slipping.
I refer back to my original post in this thread.
If you have found a solution to this problem ( and it is a problem for professional sharpeners), why haven't Tormek?
If they did we wouldn't have to retrofit!
As said before, I have 9 of the old svm jigs for batch sharpening and would be happy to buy 9 more of a new jig incorporating both benefits.
An argument I've read is that it wouldn't be in Tormeks interest to do so because it's too niche and they wouldn't make money on their investment/development/marketing.
I may be wrong but I beg to differ.
They finally did it with the new angle jig for knives, so why not with this?
I think they're missing an opportunity.

As a "hobbyist " it's hard to know what you're trying to achieve.
Ken is right, get used to the SG250 and then concentrate on your honing/deburring processes to realise your goal.
I sharpen professionally and hardly ever use the SJ250. For a personal project I may use it for prettying up an edge but in the real world it's a waste of time in my opinion. Finishing up on a 1000 grit, wether fine graded SG250 or a diamond/CBN and then correct honing is usually enough.

This is interesting 3D.
A couple of questions:
What are the wheels made of?
What is the burr removal process?- assuming after grinding, the burr is on the flat side. How do you remove it without flipping it over to the scalloped side?
Your original description match my experience exactly. Always dread a customer giving me a bread knife as the results are non predictable and still haven't hit on a good method. So this could be a game changer.

I think I understand this John. Interesting.
Would this explain why some so called 'super steels' are easier to sharpen than others even though the Rockwell score is higher?
A cheap and reliable MOH tester may therefore be more useful to the knife sharpener than knowing the Rockwell hardness?

Thanks for this Rick. Interesting.
From what I understand (and I may be wrong in this) your Bess scores would indicate that complete burr removal has not been achieved. This is not a criticism of you because you have freely given this info at cost of time and effort to yourself to try to answer some questions. Researching.
From somewhere I remember Vadim stating that a score of over 120 Bess is indicative of incomplete burr removal.
So, polishing on the SJ wheel at exact or +2 is not completely removing burr?
Honing on the felt wheel is not removing burr completely either?
And a final strop on kangaroo is also not achieving it?
So I return to my original post on this topic.
Does anyone have success using the felt wheel for honing?
I never did which is why I stopped using it.
I now do much the same process as 3D Anvil mentions,
Whilst the results are a bit variable, they are consistently lower than 120 Bess ( my bench mark, I never let a knife back to my customers above 120), and if I am suspicious about an edge ( paper tests, rizla paper tests, shaving etc), I Bess test and then hanging Roo strop and this usually takes a 140 score to below 120.
For me this is so much quicker and less fiddle faddle than all the felt/ SJ wheel stuff and suits me for batch sharpening of conventional knife steels. Higher end, higher hardness steels just require a slight adjustment of the leather belt honing stage.
Having said all that, what you are doing IS research and therefore valuable so id be interested in any further results. It's all adding to the data base of knowledge and someone will find it useful.
Thanks again.

Thanks for that Rick.
One last question.
When you say 1 micron diamond paste.
You literally mean the oily paste?
Or the emulsion (usually in alcohol)?
If the paste, where do you get it from?
Regards, Simon.

Whilst I agree with practically all your points Ken there is a clarification to be made. If one is crossing from the Tormek to say a 1x30 leather belt in order to hone and say you want to increase the angle by half a degree as is common for some steels, you would want to be as precise as possible and be confident of your angles. A goniometer isn't always easy to read precisely and the sharpie method on a flexible leather belt won't tell enough.
But yes, my advice is stick with one (preferably the ks 123) and don't mix and match.

Hi Rick. Thanks for your reply. Yes, for me you can take it as given that I'm well set and accustomed to altering honing angles accurately depending on steel and edge angle and using FVB.I'm interested to note in your post that you use the felt wheel just prior to a final strop on hanging leather.
I think the process I've been using is the same.
BUT, for standard mainstream steels the felt wheel, for me , invariably increases the Bess score significantly and then subsequent final honing, be it hanging leather or paper wheels with diamond lowers it a little but never in line with for example Vadims protocols.
So is there a lack of technique here? Or is there something else I'm missing?
The only time I've found a benefit with using the felt wheel is with Global knives as per Vadims suggestions, ie + 0.8 degrees on felt wheel then exact on leather wheel.
So maybe give more detail on your process for mainstream knives involving the rock hard felt wheel?
Describing pressure, number of passes etc?
In advance, thank you.

I bought my CBN wheels from Vadim and haven't really had trouble with them loading up. The 1000 grit does a bit more than the coarser grits, I occasionally use one of those rubbery things that are designed to de clog belts and it works well.

I can really sympathise with you here. I spent a long time trying to get Vadims protocols to work consistently with Tormek, rock hard felt wheel then slotted paper wheels with diamond pastes. I gave up in the end having identified that the problem was with the rock hard felt wheel with 1 micron diamond. I could virtually never get it to progress in the right direction according to Vadims step by step protocols.
I have asked several times on the forum for others experiences/opinions on this with mixed replies so not got anywhere really. If I could get some concrete replies as to proper use or tips I might reconsider using it in my set up.
I'm sharpening lots of knives and gave up chasing sub 50 Bess and am happy with anything around 100, which indicates to me that I've apexed and completely removed the root of the burr. After a while the Bess tester becomes almost redundant as experience tells that you've achieved around a hundred. If I'm having trouble then the tester is still a useful tool.
So you are doing incredibly well with your 50 Bess scores!
But you've got that itch that needs to be scratched!
Maybe others can help you (and me) with the felt wheel issue?
As has been pointed out before, Vadim was obviously a master sharpener with amazing skills and a feel for it. Also he advocated 12 dps for most knives which I think will lower the Bess scores slightly. I standardise at 15 dps and it's not uncommon to achieve 70-80 Bess with my speedy protocols. Vadim no doubt would have got that to 50-60!
Best of luck.