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A better title for the video might have been "The Problem With Micro Bevels On Knives".  This would have effectively stopped me from wasting my time watching the video. I suspect the truncated title was intentionally chosen to drag in unsuspecting woodworkers.

I have a complete set of Lie Nielsen bench and mortise chisels and am very happy with them.  All chisels will lose the edge during use, but some need more attention than others.

Before the LN chisels, I had a few Two Cherries chisels I bought from the local hardware store.  I think they lost their edges during the short walk from the sharpening station to the workbench.  I have no idea what alloy or hardness they were, but now they are used to open paint cans.

At €6.99 for the pair, this might be the least expensive Tormek accessory.  I'll hold off for now and continue using the thin strip of wood under one side to create the tilt.  This has worked well for the past four years, and I don't see any need to improve on it.  I never use my T8 without a grindstone or transport it elsewhere, so this new item has no value for me.

I'm glad you found a solution that works for you, Ken.  I have reading glasses scattered around the house, with slightly weaker glasses for the computers.

On my Mac computers, I don't have to hold the keys down once the option menu appears.  The option menu will remain until the next keystroke.

I've been away for a while pursuing other interests, and have finally started back into my woodworking hobby.  I was fortunate to take four of David's week-long courses, with the last course ending in March 2020, just before the pandemic.  I barely made it back to Germany before all flights out of the UK stopped.

The first course I took in 2019 was his Tool Tuning Course, which included putting a camber edge on the plane irons.  By then, he was no longer using the SE-77 for the camber, but did use it to establish the 25-degree primary bevel on the irons and chisels.  The adjustments on the SE-77 made it very easy to compensate for any differences between the diamond stone surface and the USB.

For the camber, he used a combination of thin shim stock on one edge and pressure points along the edge of the iron to establish the slight camber.  I tried both methods, and prefer the shim and pressure point method, but two of my friends swear by the SE-77.  It's results that count, and we are all happy.

Unlike others, I use the Tormek only for establishing the primary hollow grind on my chisels and plane irons.  I use water stones for the secondary bevel and final honing.  This is a system that works well for me, and I see no reason to change.  My instructor was David Charlesworth, and he posted a video about using the SE-77 for establishing a camber on plane irons, but in practice, he uses the water stones.  I could never get the SE-77 to establish a repeatable or satisfactory camber, so I don't even try now.  However, I use the SE-77 for all of my primary bevels because the small adjustments allow me to accurately dial in the grind across the iron or chisel.

My process for establishing a camber in a fresh plane iron is to grind a uniform 25-degree primary hollow bevel across the width of the iron.  I use a sharpie to monitor progress and ensure I'm still grinding square to the iron.  I'll stop when about 0.5mm of unground iron remains at the edge.  I use the water stones for this last bit.

To aid in keeping the camber even across the iron, I divide the edge into four sections and put an index mark at each quarter of the iron with the sharpie on the side I'm not grinding.  I also use the Lie-Nielsen honing guide during this process.

I use a freshly flattened King 800-grit water stone to establish the secondary bevel camber at 33 degrees (25mm projection on the LN guide).  I work the outer edges of the iron first, and then move into the inner sections when I'm satisfied with the outer edges.  A 1cm wide strip of 0.5mm thick shim stock along the edge of the water stone helps start the camber.  I'll grind one edge of the iron by keeping the other edge on the shim stock.  The water adhesion between the stone and the shim keeps in in place as I work the other side.  As soon as the sharpie mark is removed at the first index mark, I move the shim stock to the other side of the water stone and grind the other side of the iron.  When I'm done, the ground side of the iron will have two narrow wedges of freshly ground edge, with the widest part at the edge of the iron and the point of the wedge at the first index mark in from each side. 

For a new hollow grind, this process takes between 8 and 20 firm strokes on the 800-grit stone, depending on how firm my firm stroke is.  As the iron requires resharpening, this can take more strokes since the secondary bevel area is increasing with successive sharpenings.  After eight or so sharpening sessions, I go back to the Tormek for a new 25-degree hollow grind.  This takes less time than the initial hollow grind since the hollow is already formed.

I then flatten the water stone again, remove the shim stock and start on the inner portions of the iron.   I use firm pressure on one side of the iron, on the inner indes mark, and take four to eight strokes on the 800-grit stone for each side.  I check the progress of the grind to make sure the sharpie mark disappears uniformly and converges on the center index mark.  When I'm satisfied with the grind, I go to the 10,000-grit stone for the final honing bevel.

I use the nagura that came with the 10,000-grit stone to establish a fine slurry of paste on the stone.  I set the angle to 35 degrees (22mm projection on the LN guide) and make four to eight strokes down the stone.  I apply light pressure on the edge of the iron starting on the left and progressing to the right as I complete one stroke.  It doesn't take much effort for this and the rocking motion side to side is barely noticeable; however, it does make a difference on the iron.  I use a 10X loupe to check my progress and ensure the honing bevel is uniform across the iron.

When I'm satisfied with the final bevel, it's time for the Ruler Trick (only for plane irons...never chisels).  I use a 6-inch steel rule along one edge of the 10,000-grit stone and polish the back of the plane iron to establish a microbevel on the back.  You can search for the Ruler Trick to see the details.

As Ken wrote, my bench planes, with the exception of my LN #51 Shooting Plane, have cambered irons.

I am making a left and right skew chisel with a pair of normal 1/4-inch bevel chisels.  In order to get into those pesky corners on half blind dovetails, I want a skew angle of 10 degrees.  Based on someone else's set that I measured, the 10-degree angle works will with 1:6 and 1:8 dovetails.

I thought the SVS-50 Multi-Jig thinking it would be the easiest way to grind the initial skew angle, but after trying to set it up with the closed seat adapter, I can't get the small width of the chisel secured consistently.  I'm sure it's me and not the SVS-50, but if I can't get it to work, I'll use the SVD-110 Universal Tool Rest and just grind away until I get to a 10-degree skew.  Then I'll work on the hollow grind using the SE-77 as Ken recommended.

Rick, Good question. Please keep in mind that this reply is strictly my opinion. I have no official knowledge from Tormek.

This pile of videos have not been hiding; they did not exist. The knowledge and experience has developed over the years. It has mostly remained at the factory. Tormek has not kept it secret; they just have not shared it on a large scale basis. Support will gladly share parts of it on an individual basis.

The marketing emphasis of the woodworking/sharpening/knife industry centers around large shows. Unless one happens to live in one of these places, we are off the knowledge grid. Even those fortunate enough to live in an area with an annual show, only have access to this knowledge one weekend a year.

Until the present pandemic, Tormek has generally been content to rely on social media sound bites and a few well done videos featuring the SuperGrind. Present travel restrictions have caused the shows to be cancelled. I think switching to online classes at this time was a very sound management decision. It is long overdue. I hope it will continue.

Ken

Are you talking about the most recent nine videos or the entire channel?  I've been a subscriber to the Tormek channel ever since I bought my T8 last year.

Mine didn't come with an insert, but I made one using two 3cm sections of Kaizen foam to fit the drawer of my Tormek cart.  My DBS-22 insert is 38cm wide, 28cm deep, and 6cm high. 

To add to the open discussion, and provide another point of reference, the Festool Owner's Group (FOG) is provided by Festool in what appears to be the same manner as the Tormek forum.  The FOG membership is free, there are no advertisements, and the only tracker is Google Analytics.  The FOG administrators are Festool employees and the Moderators are volunteers.  In addition to a wide variety of discussion areas, there is a "Classified" forum for members to sell or solicit Festool products, as well as a Dealers forum for authorized dealers to post.

If I was in the market to buy a used Festool item, I would be comfortable buying from an established member of the FOG as opposed to taking my chances with eBay or any other online market.  I prefer to buy the latest and greatest from my favorite dealer, but I understand circumstances are different for everyone and perhaps "gently used" or "well treated" is perfect for the budget and application.

To sum up my two cents, I would not want to jeopardize this forum so that a few members could save a few dollars. The forum's product is experienced based advice. I will be meeting with a Tormek representative next weekend. I will mention this and request an answer. If Tormek decides to allow this, which would surprise me, I will insist that buy and sell posts be done on a new, separate subforum with a different moderator.

The forum's product might be experienced advice, but the forum is the membership who comes here for the advice.  My first Tormek purchase last year was the T4.  I bought it, but had to go on a business trip and didn't have a chance to open the box.  While waiting in the airport lounge for my connecting flight, I found this forum and started reading up on Tormek.  I realized I really wanted the T8 and not the T4.

When I returned to Germany, I took the unopened T4 back to the dealer for a refund and bought the T8, plus a lot of accessories.  The same dealer previously sold me about €30K in Festool and SCM Minimax tools, so they didn't mind the exchange.  Had I opened the T4 and used it prior to finding this forum, I don't know if the dealer would have taken it back.  If not, I would not have purchased the T8 and would have learned to live with the T4 because I can't be bothered with eBay or other online sales. 

I have no doubt that in time I would want the T8, or which ever model was the newest, but would be reluctant to upgrade without some way of passing on the T4.  I didn't see the two questionable posts, so I don't know if these were intended to bypass established distributors for new equipment sales or to sell used equipment that was excess.

I hope your meeting next weekend goes well for the primary tasks and you phrase the discussion a little more neutral than "if you agree to this, find somewhere else to put it and find someone else to run it."  I have been in too many meetings where new topics are introduced in a similar way, or even "who else thinks this is a waste of time and money?"  The resulting votes are easy to anticipate.

Thanks, Ken!  I received an email from Mike and will wait until he returns. I'm not in a hurry.

Thanks, Rick.  I sent an email to Mike before I posted here.  I hoped someone would be able to test the ecommerce link to see if it worked for them.  If so, then this would rule out a bad link and would likely indicate a problem with European IP addresses.  Not to jump to conclusions yet, but some U.S. vendors block European IP addresses because of the GDPR compliance requirements.  It seems to be easier to block than conform.

I was considering ordering the PT-50A, but the ecommerce link on the edgeonup website returns a "Page Not Found" error for me.  I would appreciate it if someone could verify that this link works, as it might be due to a block of European IP addresses.

Three thoughts on plane and chisel backs:
If you are not already using it, do an online search for "david Charlesworth ruler trick". This is a major time and labor saver.

Great advice, but one small correction...the ruler trick is never done on chisels...only plane irons.  I've taken two one-week courses from David at his north Devon workshop, with two more scheduled for this Spring, and he stresses repeatedly not to put a micro bevel on the back of a chisel.

Bob,
I did not mean to imply anything negative about David Charlesworth or his sharpening technique. I respect both him and his technique. Here is a link to the only post he ever placed on the forum:

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=16

Although the post is from many years ago, I do not believe that his technique has changed. While he makes good use of the Tormek, his technique is not the traditional Tormek method. He very intelligently uses the water cooled, dust free Tormek for his initial grinding (sharpening). He does not state if he uses the stone grader and the second Tormek step, the fine grinding. As he uses both 800 and 8000 grit water stones, I would guess he uses his SG-250 only as a coarse wheel. This is the most labor intensive part of sharpening.

Where he differs from traditional Tormek technique is by using water stones to create a secondary or micro bevel. This well respected technique is typical for bench stone users to reduce the time and labor involved in sharpening the entire bevel. I used this technique for years until I purchased my Tormek.

The Tormek technique involves fine grinding and honing/polishing the entire bevel. The Tormek does the work. Both methods work. Both take around the same time. Personal preference carries the day. The Tormek performs well either way.

Ken

I attended David's week-long Tool Tuning course earlier this year, followed two weeks later with his week-long Dovetailing course.  I had the additional benefit of being his only student for both courses and shipped all of my chisels and three of my bench planes to his shop for use during the courses.

David uses the T7 and a diamond wheel (I think it was the DC-250) to hollow grind the 25-degree bevel on chisels and plane irons.  From there, he uses the 800, 1200, and 8000 grit water stones for the second and third bevels.  There were the 6000 and 10000 grit stones available, but they weren't used.