Does anyone have the electrical specs on the Tormek T8? I'd like to calculate the electricity costs for the machine to run for an hour.
Basically, putting together an annual budget for professional sharpening services -- stone wear and tear, electricity costs, etc.
Thanks!
The power consumption is rated 200 W.
The max. power consumption will be in the area of 200W.
In idle, the power consumption is much lower. Unfortunately, I do not know that value.
The actual power consumption depends on usage. How long is it running idle, how long under full pressure sharpening.
You could ask Tormek customer support for average numbers.
My T-8 draws about 100 watts, and that's with two CBN wheels mounted. Tested with a Kill-A-Watt meter. Specifically, it draws 98.4 watts running, and just over 100 watts if applying heavy pressure to the wheel.
Welcome to the forum, Gill.
The electricity used by your Tormek is a tiny part of the cost of a sharpening business. You probably will use more electricity in lighting and climate control.
If you are doing this cost analysis for tax purposes, using the square footage used exclusively for business as a percentage of your total square footage and cost of housing would be more logical. Check with your tax consultant,
Ken
Ken,
The math I'm doing is for rehabilitation of chipped items, such as drill bits, wood chisels, and so on, that require a crapload of grinding time. I've got the diamond stones, and have invented ways to let the machine run by itself during the rehabilitation process, with me doing other things in close proximity so I can monitor what's going on.
For example, this 5/8" bit took two hours and 15 minutes to rehab. All but about 10 minutes of that was the machine just doing its own thing in the background while I was building a cabinet.
What I'm assessing is the total costs of that rehab -- electricity, wear and tear on the machine's life and the stone's life, etc. Now I'm working on inventions to speed up the process -- ways to apply just a bit more gravitational pressure to the bit vice so the grinding speeds up a tad and the time reduces.
Only by having the exact numbers can I decide whether it's worth doing, or if so, at what time point it becomes worth it. After all, if the client can toss the item and buy a new one for less than I'll need to charge to rehab it, there's no point.
And from a sales perspective, explaining the calculations to people provides the kind of transparency that engenders trust and creates clients. People like to know why things cost what they cost. So it's also an interesting marketing story.
As for the various costs you mentioned, they're already sunk, as I'll be in the shop working on other projects while the Tormek runs.
Thank you all for the watts rating. Pardon my ignorance, but when you say "200 Watts" (for example), do you mean per hour, per minute, per second, something else? I'm not familiar with the nomenclature so if you can spell it out that would help a ton!
Ken was right about the fact that electricity costs are of small consequence. Turns out, running the Tormek in my shop costs me a whopping $.0259 cents per hour.
Still going to be a great addition to the marketing story I'm telling.
You pay money for Energy, measured in kWh. In my area 1 kWh cost approx. 40 cent.
If you run 200W Power for 1 hour,
the spent Energy is 200W x 1 hour = 200 Wh
200Wh equals 0,2 kWh.
The price for 1 hour would be in my case 0,2 kWh x 40 cent/kWh = 8 cent
Gill,
Ah ha! That paints a much more complete (and interesting) picture. I understand what you say about the marketing nit picking of customers. At $.0259 for electricity consumed and $.9741 for wheel wear, $1.0000 per drill bit sounds about right. If you are willing to work "pro bono", I will be the first to send you my drill bits to sharpen.
There is a story about a technician/engineer hired to repair a large mechanical system. He did the repair and submitted his bill for $5005. When asked to explain the bill, he said it was $5 for the hammer and $5000 for knowing where to hit. With your drill bits, the main cost is your skill. You are entitled to charge a labor cost commensurate with your skill. I'm sure you know that many drill bits are used (abused) well beyond the point of being no longer sharp.
You have an interesting dilemma. You want a fair return for your time and capital investment. Your customer probably wants the minimum cost. You are on the right path in thinking that educating your customer is important.
Good luck and please keep us posted.
Ken
ps This should answer some of your questions:
https://taraenergy.com/blog/kilowatts-energy-what-you-need-to-know/
When I was in college, I worked for two years reading meters for my local electric utility. Ever since then, I think of electric bills in terms of kWh rather than in dollars.
Quote from: Ken S on February 11, 2023, 05:31:19 PM... snip
ps This should answer some of your questions:
https://taraenergy.com/blog/kilowatts-energy-what-you-need-to-know/
...
The link you refer to does not provide correct information. There it is stated about the Kilowatt: "A kilowatt is a unit of energy ...". That should be: "A kilowatt is a unit of power, whether in consumption or in delivery or potential." If that power is supplied or consumed, then the duration determines how much energy is supplied or consumed. So energy = power x time. And so Kwh (Kilowatthour) is a unit of energy.
Quote from: gwagner on February 11, 2023, 03:54:52 PMKen,
The math I'm doing is for rehabilitation of chipped items, such as drill bits, wood chisels, and so on, that require a crapload of grinding time. I've got the diamond stones, and have invented ways to let the machine run by itself during the rehabilitation process, with me doing other things in close proximity so I can monitor what's going on.
For example, this 5/8" bit took two hours and 15 minutes to rehab. All but about 10 minutes of that was the machine just doing its own thing in the background while I was building a cabinet.
What I'm assessing is the total costs of that rehab -- electricity, wear and tear on the machine's life and the stone's life, etc. Now I'm working on inventions to speed up the process -- ways to apply just a bit more gravitational pressure to the bit vice so the grinding speeds up a tad and the time reduces.
Only by having the exact numbers can I decide whether it's worth doing, or if so, at what time point it becomes worth it. After all, if the client can toss the item and buy a new one for less than I'll need to charge to rehab it, there's no point.
And from a sales perspective, explaining the calculations to people provides the kind of transparency that engenders trust and creates clients. People like to know why things cost what they cost. So it's also an interesting marketing story.
As for the various costs you mentioned, they're already sunk, as I'll be in the shop working on other projects while the Tormek runs.
Please elaborate more on the automation you did.
Good point, Dutchman.
Ken
Quote from: HaioPaio on February 11, 2023, 04:58:13 PMYou pay money for Energy, measured in kWh. In my area 1 kWh cost approx. 40 cent.
If you run 200W Power for 1 hour,
the spent Energy is 200W x 1 hour = 200 Wh
200Wh equals 0,2 kWh.
The price for 1 hour would be in my case 0,2 kWh x 40 cent/kWh = 8 cent
Except, notwithstanding the Tormek rating, the machine only draws about 100 watts in operation, so it would be $0.04 per hour.
Quote from: 3D Anvil on February 12, 2023, 06:21:09 PMExcept, notwithstanding the Tormek rating, the machine only draws about 100 watts in operation, so it would be $0.04 per hour.
Correct!
On the basis of these new facts, I am revising my estimate upward to $1.0259.
Ken
Quote from: gwagner on February 11, 2023, 03:54:52 PMAs for the various costs you mentioned, they're already sunk, as I'll be in the shop working on other projects while the Tormek runs.
As Rich, I'm interested in knowing the cost of amortizing whatever automation you're using (material and workmanship) relative to the cost of electricity.